ECM, yay or nay

[nickexists]

I'm wondering what peoples' opinions are about whether or not to use ecm. Since you will pretty much always be within burn-through range before you can launch a missile is there any advantage to using ECM in DCS?

[ralfidude]

Sure there is.

 

 

Now imagine red players heading South to Blue base.

 

 

He sees 12 jammers in front of him, and he sees maybe one or two burn through targets.

 

Guess what. He can't lock those two guys because the jammers are in the way... Cuz that's how it apparently works in DCS.

 

There are some tricks to getting a lock on target, or trying to scan a very specific part of the sky where your target of interest is to try and blot out the jammers but they still show up, right on top of your target...

 

Annooooyyyyiiiinnnnggggg but tactically sound in this case.

[FLANKERATOR]

I'd say you can't really know for sure. There are advantages and downsides either way. As Ralfi stated, sometimes it could be not bad of an idea to participate in an ECM orchestra and create a little chaos on the enemy's radar, which could let you close in unnoticed. However, the danger of getting killed by unseen missiles will always be lurking because your RWR gets much slower at picking up threats when you're music on. The enemy can also be tempted to shoot in the dark, so bottom line is caution ⚠

[EngineerFalcon]

I personally don't use ECM for multiple reasons.

First, it takes up two hardpoints that can be used for R-73s.

Then, there's the problem of the RWR. Eagles can shoot in TWS, and the launch warning is already late enough without ECM.

 

And finally, I kind of get annoyed by jammers online. If I am not mistaken, a radar jammer should not prevent the use of IFF. But since we lack IFF modeling (and probably will for a while)... Usually when everyone is using jammers as soon as they take off, your radar scope becomes a huge mess and there's no point in even trying. Now, if the server has AWACS I'm all for ECM.

[Frostie]

I'm in the Yay camp, though it largely depends on how you're going to attack.

Do you want to give the bandits an easy sort or do you want to create a lot of confusion? Without ECM you're just letting any bandit within 100km know your intentions. Now if everybody flew without jammers the chances of controlling the airspace and out foxing the enemy have taken a hit.

[Darkwolf]

Well, i like when US plane use ECM. It's actually easier to find them. And if they have their own radar on (which is 99% of the case), the jamming is absolutely useless : I range them thanks to the RWR.

[Svend_Dellepude]

Sure there is.

 

 

Now imagine red players heading South to Blue base.

 

 

He sees 12 jammers in front of him, and he sees maybe one or two burn through targets.

 

Guess what. He can't lock those two guys because the jammers are in the way... Cuz that's how it apparently works in DCS.

 

There are some tricks to getting a lock on target, or trying to scan a very specific part of the sky where your target of interest is to try and blot out the jammers but they still show up, right on top of your target...

 

Annooooyyyyiiiinnnnggggg but tactically sound in this case.

 

Depending on the distance of the jammer and the burnthrough target, a simple change of altitude or change of direction can do the trick.

At least for the F-15.

[nickexists]

I guess that keeps me in the Nay camp. I rarely fly on servers with enough people to make use of the "ECM orchestra", and I rely heavily on the RWR for dodging AMRAAMs. I didn't realize that ECM affected the RWR in that way.

[Frostie]

I didn't realize that ECM affected the RWR in that way.

 

The ECM doesn't affect the RWR in anyway you can use it to estimate range to the jammer if the jammer on the nose marries up with the signal on the RWR but this is guesswork and only really true in a 1v1 situation, a trailing bandit could be masking the closer bandit or the closer bandit could even be radar off, you could well be getting set up.

 

Jammers have a purpose and can be extremely useful but you've got to know when to turn them off, jammers on at burn through is a definite no. If you seeing jammers equals finding contacts easier then your scanning technique is poor. I'd rather a high F-15 be music off than on, I can gain so much more info that way.

[solidusbucket]

Do jammers allow the R27ER to turn into a fire and forget? My missiles often divert to an aircraft I am not locking onto when I play against the A.I.

[Steel Jaw]

In real life or a sim with good internships data linking AND good AWACS to declare, like FBMS, yes. In DCSW as it currently stands? Absolutely not. Too hard to tell friend from foe. Can't even make bullseye raygun calls like you can in FBMS.

[Exorcet]

Sure there is.

 

 

Now imagine red players heading South to Blue base.

 

 

He sees 12 jammers in front of him, and he sees maybe one or two burn through targets.

 

Guess what. He can't lock those two guys because the jammers are in the way... Cuz that's how it apparently works in DCS.

 

This is one the biggest advantages to ECM. That said, it doesn't really work so well in the role you would expect, which is using your ECM to directly protect you.

 

I fly with it off for the vast majority of the time. It simply alerts everyone to your presence, it confuses friendlies, and it makes it easier for some missiles to hit you. The only time I really use ECM is when I'm covering another plane. If for example, I'm out of ammo and flying back to base, I'll turn on ECM so that radars look at me instead of friendlies that might be attacking them.

[Frostie]

In real life or a sim with good internships data linking AND good AWACS to declare, like FBMS, yes. In DCSW as it currently stands? Absolutely not. Too hard to tell friend from foe. Can't even make bullseye raygun calls like you can in FBMS.

 

And how realistic is it to declare jamming aircraft? Not only is there no datalink contact info but some jammers give false bearings.

[Steel Jaw]

And how realistic is it to declare jamming aircraft? Not only is there no datalink contact info but some jammers give false bearings.

 

In FBMS, you cannot declare jamming aircraft, sir.

[GGTharos]

Very realistic. An SPJ isn't going to be jamming an AWACS, and generally speaking, IFF gets through just fine as well since it operates on completely different wavelengths. An SoJ is probably going to be ID'ed by AWACS much like an RWR would ID a radar.

 

Now if we're talking a concerted RL ECM effort instead of in-game stuff, that might change things a bit.

 

And how realistic is it to declare jamming aircraft? Not only is there no datalink contact info but some jammers give false bearings.

[whitehot]

Do jammers allow the R27ER to turn into a fire and forget? My missiles often divert to an aircraft I am not locking onto when I play against the A.I.

 

R-27R/ER are home on jam capable, although their hit probability is rather low in that mode.

 

When employing them that way, you have to remember to input the estimated target slant range into the FCR.

 

If the measurement is inside the weapon range, you get a PR instantly.