"Buddy Spike" - DCS World Online Events

[M460]

I don't mind taking the TGP away, but not the A-10C itself... I don't even own the A-10A.

 

I trust the buddyspike team knows what they are doing.

 

:thumbup:

[Chrinik]

I don't mind taking the TGP away, but not the A-10C itself... I don't even own the A-10A.

 

I trust the buddyspike team knows what they are doing.

 

Seconded.

[kobeshow]

I read the SOP again and there is no mention of 80's scenario, just NATO vs. Russia, none the less the aim should be competitive balance, and with the fact that high fidelity modules are tilted towards NATO you just have to be a little creative with the setup. I understand that Red comes off as whiny apparently, but it should not be too hard to step back a bit and think about the capabilities of Blue/Red in the current setup.

[Beeroshima]

The issue becomes clouded. If we're taking the tgp away, yet trying to maintain realism, you may as well take the entire a10c. In what universe is an a10 going to be the primary method of taking out Kubs and osas?

 

So, to be clear, you guys think the exercise will be "balanced" with an su25t carrying 20 missiles and a ka50 carrying 12, both aircraft with a shkval while blue has an a10 with maverick d's only and no targeting pod?

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[Kartoffel]

Does anyone know what these new comm things are on the new buddyspike app?

Edited July 19, 2016 by Kartoffel

[levanoga]

Sure...the SU-25T never really existed anyway and I don´t fly the KA-50. Again with the "Bias" bullshit. I was already wondering what the KA-50 was doing here.

 

KA-50 first flight 1982, in service 1995.

SU-25T first flight 1984.

 

A-10C in service 2006.

 

"The "back to the future" Tgp as you put it is no more out out of time frame than the Ka 50 or Su25t for a 1980s scenario."

 

Lol.

 

Are you telling me that a first flight is the same as being combat ready and put into service? Do you think that when a prototype makes its first flight it has all its weapons and sensors already ready for combat?

 

Please stop you are killing me with your posts. :megalol::megalol::megalol:

[Kartoffel]

The issue becomes clouded. If we're taking the tgp away, yet trying to maintain realism, you may as well take the entire a10c. In what universe is an a10 going to be the primary method of taking out Kubs and osas?

 

So, to be clear, you guys think the exercise will be "balanced" with an su25t carrying 20 missiles and a ka50 carrying 12, both aircraft with a shkval while blue has an a10 with maverick d's only and no targeting pod?

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

 

At least it would sway people to join Red! :thumbup:

 

But actually no, I would think that if this is all we have from ED at this point in time, we should make do with proper 80s style arsenals and just forget about it being balance. After all, war is about being the best pilot you can and not letting the technology get in your way.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Kartoffel

[Beeroshima]

I enjoy playing with my friends in RVE. If the stats dictate an imbalance in round 8, id go to redfor, but I don't speak for the rest of them. I miss the 25t and ka50

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[Enduro14]

it's not so much the "time frame" issue, it's that the TGP gives such a huge advantage to the A-10C. It's about balance.

 

Their should be nothing done in regards to balance. If they say it's a certain time period conflict then remove what was not here in reality during that time frame. All I ask the Hosts for is don't play the balance game, tactics and technique trumps technology everyday, literally!

You set a time period remove everything not part of that time period should be the standard. Not my server so just my two cents

[Enduro14]

At least it would sway people to join Red! :thumbup:

 

But actually no, I would think that if this is all we have from ED at this point in time, we should make do with proper 80s style arsenals and just forget about it being balance. After all, war is about being the best pilot you can and not letting the technology get in your way.

 

Fact!

 

Tgp is nice but you need to be working with a jtac more than your tgp. Jtac will keep you alive tgp is a straw of SA death.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Enduro14

[Beeroshima]

I think that this approach generates is an empty server.

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[Beeroshima]

The fact is, we're playing a video game. The primary purpose is fun. A stacked losing battle and guaranteed defeat isnt fun. If its not fun, people won't play. If people don't play, whats the point?

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[BodyOrgan]

Are you telling me that a first flight is the same as being combat ready and put into service? Do you think that when a prototype makes its first flight it has all its weapons and sensors already ready for combat?

 

Please stop you are killing me with your posts. :megalol::megalol::megalol:

I'm pretty certain the Ka-50 was ready for combat deployment long before its service date. It was ordered, canceled, ordered, canceled, etc... for quite some time due to political, and economic issues Russia was having.

 

You can bet the Ka-50 in service is far more capable than the Ka-50 we're flying around in which is more than likely one of those 1980's test bed aircraft. I would wager the Su-25T is in the same boat.

[Beeroshima]

Cite me some sources and I'll consider the point. I looked for several. But now we're starting to conveniently manipulate the criteria. Prototypes and test beds and versions.

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[Chrinik]

If you want to talk about a balanced scenario, I think we can do so. If you want to talk about a time frame accurate scenario I think we can do so. Where you'll fail is when you try to achieve both, simultaneously.

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

 

Never heard of the term assymetric ballance?

 

If one side has a leg up in one area (F-15 with Amraams and the best ground attack plane for Example) then the other side should have a leg up on a different area (better choppers/SEAD).

 

That´s assymetric.

 

Right now it looks like this.

 

Best Air superiourity fighter = blue, Eagle vs 27.

Best forward Interceptor = blue, Mirage vs 21.

Best SEAD aircraft = None

Best Ground attacker = blue, A-10C with TGP.

Best Ground Attack Choppers = red, KA-50 vs Gazelle.

Best Transport Choppers = red, Mi-8 vs UH-1

 

3:2 for blue

 

Do you see the issue now?

It should be 3:3...The issue can´t be quantified by just missile count, if you forget the fact that two A-10Cs could wipe out a FARP in seconds by launching all their Mavericks at different targets using markpoints...the 25T can´t, even with it´s 20 missiles, it can take out maybe two or three targets on a pass and has to get dangerously close for the last shot.

 

If you break down planes into categories, and then ballance the categories so that both sides have an equal number of different advantages, it´s possible to archieve balance without removing anything.

But this seems to not be the route...

 

Maybe this could be tried for a later round, but what is testing for if not to find out how these things would impact gameplay?

 

The worst part would be for one side to quit and blue not having any opposition, AKA round 6, would that be fun?

Edited July 19, 2016 by Chrinik

[Beeroshima]

I'm pretty certain the Ka-50 was ready for combat deployment long before its service date. It was ordered, canceled, ordered, canceled, etc... for quite some time due to political, and economic issues Russia was having.

 

You can bet the Ka-50 in service is far more capable than the Ka-50 we're flying around in which is more than likely one of those 1980's test bed aircraft. I would wager the Su-25T is in the same boat.

Here we see an amraam shooting down a target in 1982. So...if you're gonna start manipulating the criteria for red, allow me to retort.

 

 

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[D4n]

- Replaced ZU-23 emplacements with Shilkas

 

They can't be gunned by ground commanders? :( And what about the Osas at airfields, please make them 1st person playable! :) (last DCS patch fixed all the lag/warp problems!) And please also some Tors! :)

 

And wait, can't team blue use Ka-50 and Mi-8 aswell?

[Beeroshima]

Never heard of the term assymetric ballance?

 

If one side has a leg up in one area (F-15 with Amraams and the best ground attack plane for Example) then the other side should have a leg up on a different area (better choppers/SEAD).

 

That´s assymetric.

 

Right now it looks like this.

 

Best Air superiourity fighter = blue, Eagle vs 27.

Best Interceptor = blue, Mirage vs 21.

Best SEAD aircraft = None

Best Ground attacker = blue, A-10C with TGP.

Best Ground Attack Choppers = red, KA-50 vs Gazelle.

Best Transport Choppers = red, Mi-8 vs UH-1

 

3:2 for blue

 

Do you see the issue now?

It should be 3:3...

Forgive me if I don't consider your scoreboard the comprehensive accepted standard. Shrug. A single su25t carries enough ordnance to finish off an entire airfield while a single a10 cannot. That's asymmetric balance too then, isn't it?

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[Kartoffel]

Never heard of the term assymetric ballance?

 

Best Transport Choppers = red, Mi-8 vs UH-1

 

3:2 for blue

 

I don't exactly know where you can pull that from but seems legit :thumbup:

[microvax]

Dunno, 80s scenario really doesnt take off with what we would have to scratch equipment wise.

 

MI8 mtv isnt in that time frame afaik. [sure other mi8 variants are, but we have the mtv].

Gazelle M and L as well arent in that time frame either.

Ka50 isnt in that time frame either. [May have been ready but what's the point, wasnt in service].

 

So, ye only helicopter there would be would be the UH1h. :D

 

Afaik the KA50s werent upgraded over what we have, no point for a fleet of 16 helis. The ABRIS itself is a quite late addition, definetly post 1990.

[Kartoffel]

They can't be gunned by ground commanders? :( And what about the Osas at airfields, please make them 1st person playable! :) (last DCS patch fixed all the lag/warp problems!) And please also some Tors! :)

 

And wait, can't team blue use Ka-50 and Mi-8 aswell?

 

I believed they changed it to a more realistic version with black shark and Mi-8 only on the red team.

[Beeroshima]

They can't be gunned by ground commanders? :( And what about the Osas at airfields, please make them 1st person playable! :) (last DCS patch fixed all the lag/warp problems!) And please also some Tors! :)

 

And wait, can't team blue use Ka-50 and Mi-8 aswell?

No. Do you read the briefings at all man? All of this info is available. Quit making posts demanding stuff of multiple servers and go read the briefings. It will take 5 minutes and eliminate posts like this one that have already been answered.

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[Kartoffel]

Dunno, 80s scenario really doesnt take off with what we would have to scratch equipment wise.

 

MI8 mtv isnt in that time frame afaik. [sure other mi8 variants are, but we have the mtv].

Gazelle M and L as well arent in that time frame either.

Ka50 isnt in that time frame either. [May have been ready but what's the point, wasnt in service].

 

So, ye only helicopter there would be would be the UH1h. :D

 

Afaik the KA50s werent upgraded over what we have, no point for a fleet of 16 helis. The ABRIS itself is a quite late addition, definetly post 1990.

 

Ok the Mi-8 isn't from the time but who really cares? From an educated standpoint they would be quite similar.

 

There is a point in it not being in service (the ka-50) because, as aformentioned, it was likely ready but due to political reasons Russia did not order any.

[BodyOrgan]

The fact is, we're playing a video game. The primary purpose is fun. A stacked losing battle and guaranteed defeat isnt fun. If its not fun, people won't play. If people don't play, whats the point?

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

You finally said something I agree on. Everyone is playing this for fun whether they like to think it or not.

 

As for the "MUST BE 100% REALISTIC TO LIFE" crowd. I want things to be realistic as well, but within a balanced scenario. Restricting weapons doesn't make it any less realistic because the tools you still have are modeled as realistically as possible at this current time.

[microvax]

Ok the Mi-8 isn't from the time but who really cares? From an educated standpoint they would be quite similar.

 

There is a point in it not being in service (the ka-50) because, as aformentioned, it was likely ready but due to political reasons Russia did not order any.

 

Nope, the MI8 we have has substantially stronker engines, which is quite important in a map where you have to go over 2900m mountains sometimes.