"Buddy Spike" - DCS World Online Events

[Esac_mirmidon]

This is the first time i have notice about Leavu3. I didnt know anything about that until i´ve read this thread.

 

Before knowing about it i had some premises about what F-15C version ( and other planes in DCS ) we have in DCS, and what systems and equipment they have.

 

I know the F-15C in DCS is a kind of mix between versions and upgrades but in essence is a version without datalink representation in the MFD. So THIS F-15C doesn´t have a MFD page to see datalink icons from other inflight members, or enemy icons detected by his own radar, or any friendly Awacs radar or GCI.

 

So the only representation the pilot could have are the Radar Display to the left, and the RWR display to the right, plus Radio Comms with Awacs, Friendly Flights and the own HUD symbology. Thats all the information, and the representation IN COCKPIT, a F-15C DCS pilot could have.

 

Taking this in count LEAVU shows the pilot a set of MFD screens, icons, datalink contacts, information and options not showed in the F-15C version modeled in DCS, rising the Situational Awareness to a point that a pilot with LEAVU are in an advantage position ( in my opinion ) compared to other without it.

 

So if the real F-15C modeled in DCS didn´t have this kind of MFD options, screens, icons, information exchange, contacts representation and capabilities, this is in my opinion a cheat. Or at least an unfair advantage because the pilots who are using it has a lot of extra information represented in a format that it´s not present in the DCS F-15C, not in the real F-15C version modeled.

 

For me any server admin has all the right to admit this mod in his missions on MP, or forbbide it but i will never going to use it because the real F-15C did not have at all any of this icons, screens or information on the real MFD´s or cockpit.

 

It has the RWR, the Radar display and the HUD, plus de radio, nothing less, nothing more, and adding this kind of information representation helper for me is cheating because this never exists in the real F-15C modeled in DCS.

 

I´have joined Blue Flag in the first three rounds with great fun and exciting moments but if this mod is going to be used in the future i will not join the BF anymore.

 

Only my opinion of course.

[Beeroshima]

For the record, if the BS team wishes it not to be used, I personally won't be using it because I respect their wishes. It's the smallest courtesy I can grant them in thanks for all of their effort. All I'm asking is that an educated discussion be had instead of people condemning what they don't understand. Regardless of any discussion, ill be respecting the BS team's ruling, whatever that may be.

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[sirscorpion]

This is the first time i have notice about Leavu3. I didnt know anything about that until i´ve read this thread.

 

Before knowing about it i had some premises about what F-15C version ( and other planes in DCS ) we have in DCS, and what systems and equipment they have.

 

I know the F-15C in DCS is a kind of mix between versions and upgrades but in essence is a version without datalink representation in the MFD. So THIS F-15C doesn´t have a MFD page to see datalink icons from other inflight members, or enemy icons detected by his own radar, or any friendly Awacs radar or GCI.

 

So the only representation the pilot could have are the Radar Display to the left, and the RWR display to the right, plus Radio Comms with Awacs, Friendly Flights and the own HUD symbology. Thats all the information, and the representation IN COCKPIT, a F-15C DCS pilot could have.

 

Taking this in count LEAVU shows the pilot a set of MFD screens, icons, datalink contacts, information and options not showed in the F-15C version modeled in DCS, rising the Situational Awareness to a point that a pilot with LEAVU are in an advantage position ( in my opinion ) compared to other without it.

 

So if the real F-15C modeled in DCS didn´t have this kind of MFD options, screens, icons, information exchange, contacts representation and capabilities, this is in my opinion a cheat. Or at least an unfair advantage because the pilots who are using it has a lot of extra information represented in a format that it´s not present in the DCS F-15C, not in the real F-15C version modeled.

 

For me any server admin has all the right to admit this mod in his missions on MP, or forbbide it but i will never going to use it because the real F-15C did not have at all any of this icons, screens or information on the real MFD´s or cockpit.

 

It has the RWR, the Radar display and the HUD, plus de radio, nothing less, nothing more, and adding this kind of information representation helper for me is cheating because this never exists in the real F-15C modeled in DCS.

 

I´have joined Blue Flag in the first three rounds with great fun and exciting moments but if this mod is going to be used in the future i will not join the BF anymore.

 

Only my opinion of course.

 

 

I humbly ask for source on the F15c model capability in game, from what i know the armament menu right now is stuck, and where the LEAVU capability should be.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Maybe i´m wrong because the F-15C is not my favourite module in DCS but i´ve read many times in the forum that the DCS F-15C modeled didn´t have datalink capabilities.

 

At least in the manual i can´t see any reference about the datalink or the datalink MFD page representation and icons in the cockpit but maybe i´m wrong. I´m an helicopter pilot almot 90% of my time.

 

But i´ve thought the only DCS planes with datalink representation in a MFD were the A-10C, the Su-27S and the Ka-50.

[Beeroshima]

I humbly ask for source on the F15c model capability in game, from what i know the armament menu right now is stuck, and where the LEAVU capability should be.

This. So much of this. If ED came out and said we intended the f15 model from x year with x configuration and there was no data link in that rendition of the airframe, and this was taken into account for several reasons, balance and fair play among them, id be happy to accept it as unfair. But what we need are facts. The post that sirscorpion quoted contains no facts, just speculation.

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[Esac_mirmidon]

I dont understand that.

 

If the DCS F-15C dont have any datalink representation in the radar display, and no information in the manual about that why an external program must add it?

 

But for me more important than adding a datalink capability is the way information is represented. The 360º azimutal representation of radar contacts, the friendly icons around own plane, the radar moving arc, all that info is not presented like this in the Eagles cockpit. Is like adding the F-35 glass cockpit to a 90´s fighter.

 

I can understand instruments and MFD exporting to other monitor or monitors for better size and improved looking but importing the exact same MFD-HUD-TEWS representation. Not new ones not real.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Esac_mirmidon

[Beeroshima]

They don't have tires in the manual...you shouldn't be allowed to use them. The f15 doesn't have a clickable cockpit. Should I disable helios when I play multiplayer? Should I not watch tacview of flights after they have concluded? They're not in the manual and the dcs f15 has no data logger.

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[BodyOrgan]

As it stands today I'm sitting Blue Flag Round 6 out. Originally I was very excited to play in it, but a number of issues with the choices within their control, and some outside of their control have made it a grueling experience.

 

I'll just list the problems as I see it today.

 

• Model enlargement of any kind ruins the experience for chopper pilots. I realize A2A boy's want an easier way to find targets, but the only defense a chopper pilot has is to hide. How do you do that when all you need to do is zoom your view out?
  
• Having a 4th generation fighter (Mirage 2000) capable of advanced A2G, and A2A spawning at all the Redfor bases tilts the balance in Bluefor's favor significantly.
  
• Having hot started choppers at bases next door to each other makes them near impossible to capture.
  
• ED implementing structural integrity in a single aircraft (Su-27) without doing so for the other aircraft gimps it's ability to compete. Buddy Spike team needs to replace or at least put down quite a few Su-33's to offset this. I honestly feel like many pilots need more time to adjust to such a large change, and this includes myself. I'm regularly snapping my wings off right now just making a simple 6g turn.
  
• I have to put my vote in for the 120B even though I think some testing needs to be done with it, but so far I haven't had a single counter measure defeat a 120C. The only option is to out-maneuver it, or run away from it. On the flip side I had a single F-15 running from me, so at rear aspect from about 1 km the F-15 dumped a couple flares and a few chaff and my entire rack of missiles missed. including the prized R-73. Yep, that is completely even Steven.
  
• CSAR, what happened to it? I like doing CSAR, but it's gone now. I also would like to CSAR in the TF-51 for change, but that never seems to happen.
  
• When I played Round 5 Redfor was always outnumbered by Bluefor, and now during the testing phase when the teams appear to be about even Greg makes a call for additional Bluefor pilots. No matter what time I get online we seem to be outnumbered 2 to 1. Sorry, that was brutal in Round 5, and not worth it in Round 6.
  
• Don't even get me started on the long ass fuel flights for Redfor.
  
• Lastly, Leavu3. It appears there is a significant number of Bluefor players which think it is perfectly acceptable to use what is essentially a wall hack in DCS. The one advantage the Su-27 is supposed to have against the F-15 in DCS is its datalink, but it doesn't actually have that. Datalink does not work in multiplayer unless there is an AWACS in which you only receive information from the AWACS. It still won't let you receive information from your flight as it's supposed to work. Did anyone notice there isn't an AWACS in Blue Flag? Anyone? All those using Leavu3 are running around enhancing your aircraft over an already gimped aircraft, but you wouldn't know that because you've probably never flown the Su-27.
  

The current Blue Flag experience is less than stellar, so I'm getting back to real life.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Tires?

 

What?

 

Whats the relation between tires and a full set of icons and information representation in a way that the real F-15C dont have?

 

Now i´m starting to understand why people is complaining.

[Beeroshima]

Hmmm, stats for the last blue flag indicated pretty balanced team server occupancy, did they not?

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[Beeroshima]

Tires?

 

What?

 

Whats the relation between tires and a full set of icons and information representation in a way that the real F-15C dont have?

 

Now i´m starting to understand why people is complaining.

You asserted that if something isn't in the manual, it shouldn't exist. I find that argument lacking....there are about 5 million features or concepts absent from the manual.

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[Beeroshima]

Team speak isnt in the manual.

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[Esac_mirmidon]

OMG ¡¡

 

Nice way of reasoning.

 

Leaving this discussion in 3...2....1.....

[Beeroshima]

OMG ¡¡

 

Nice way of reasoning.

 

Leaving this discussion in 3...2....1.....

Let me simplify it for you. You asserted that anything absent from an instruction manual has no place in the game. If we followed your assertion to the letter of the law, Blue Flag as we know it becomes impossible. A concept being absent from a manual does not make a valid argument against its fairness or feasibility. We transport Kub missile systems in hueys and Mi8's. Is that anywhere in the manual? Blue flags are aided by scripts and concepts that arent in manuals.

 

I feel like this has derailed the Blue flag discussion badly and we need a thread devoted specifically for the leavu3 topic.

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

Edited May 1, 2016 by Beeroshima

[*Rage*]

Could there be any more proof that hacks like Leavu are toxic to multiplayer? Its about to ruin the single best public server event in the history of DCS.

[Beeroshima]

You keep taking for granted that its a hack when that is decidedly not the case....have you even used the mod?

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[Esac_mirmidon]

Thanks for your simplification.

 

Now it´s crystal clear.

 

You have a great talent comparing things.....

[Beeroshima]

My point remains. Do you have a counterpoint in the discussion or is your position only reinforced with personal attacks and threatening to leave the conversation?

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[Esac_mirmidon]

Bye.

[Beeroshima]

Thats what I thought. ;)

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[gregzagk]

Hi Greg,

thank you for that clear statement.

In regards to balance I understand that you don't like people complaining about ideas that you think are a nice twist on the mission, and I wouldn't like it either. To prevent something like that maybe you could just post a quick statement about what your thoughts were when you implemented a certain balance. I think if people for example read something like "in this round redfor has to make due with outdated aircraft against a better equipped bluefor" then the acceptance would be much higher, general thoughts and statements like this could of course be put in the opening post for the new round, which ideally would be up by the time the testing phase begins, so people can have a streamlined discussion, unlike now where we discuss 5 different issues across 2 threads (;

 

These are just my thoughts in general on the way the testing phase has gone, and in no way am I complaining about anything to you guys, you are doing a great job and have created something that makes DCS worth playing, which is no exaggeration, I stopped playing this game for a year and came back just because of blueflag, so THANK YOU (: !

 

Yes, a new thread for the new event will open soon. We just work on some stuff like the fuel feature and can't get a change log out without being finalized or at least close to the final one.

 

The new thread will contain all the info that the previous had and can explain much. Thank you too for your support.

 

Greg

[holimoli]

You keep taking for granted that its a hack when that is decidedly not the case....have you even used the mod?

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

 

Exporting data should have been disabled to some extend long time ago...There are so many things you can do with the data export and (un)fortenately the RvE guys showed us what is possible... I think LEAVU is great tool and well done and I really respect the guys for making it public to the community...but it has no place here

 

Back to the "hacking" thing. Exporting data might not be a hack but sending the exported data through a dedicated channel outside the game is considered to be a hack IMO. And I don't think LEAVU has any kind of signal degradation implemented, or has it ?

 

Also LEAVU works with other FC3 aircraft...and I think this is even more of an issue...

[Beeroshima]

These are issues that are worth discussing for sure! Finally someone is using their brain. I'm not sure what the effects of distance or LOS do to the actual Link 16 used in f15's and id bet the RVE guys would be open to discussing the issues.

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[holimoli]

The current Blue Flag experience is less than stellar, so I'm getting back to real life.

 

That's really sad to read. We didn't spend much time together but from what I've seen you are a really valuable "asset" for the red side. :) ..But I get your points. I could atleast help with the "ripping my wings off" and the "defending AIM120s" part and give some advice if it's needed.

 

Hope you will change your mind! ;)

[Beeroshima]

But he struggled with 120's so they're obviously op!

 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk