SFS talon + split throttle for f-15 setup

[snomhf]

Have you guys seen this as well ?

 

http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/joystick/index.html

 

Cheers

 

PaddyTB

This is cool! The price is right too! One thing. I suppose when you go this route that you are entirely at the mercy of the game itself for the programming of the stick, right? In other words, you go into the configuration section of the game and "teach" each command by pressing the buttons on your controller when prompted? I've always wondered how reasonable it would be to write a programming interface that gets burned into an eprom so you can truly control your devices the way CH does with their Command Manager program. I have gotten so spoiled by CM that it would be hard to live without that!

 

Having a CM has been my primary motivation for wanting to put CH electronics in these sticks. That is certainly a very expensive way to go however.

[bflagg]

I thought the suncoms were a no go since there are no xp drivers.

[SUBS17]

Thats why I'm converting mine to USB.:joystick:

[christopher m]

Suncom F15 Eagle

 

I've got a suncom F15 Eagle I sure would like to use again.

It had great smooth action.

No centering mechanism problems like my present X45

If you figure a way to wire the USB controller please post

Thats one project I'd like to try.

It too good a stick to waste.

 

Regards,

[PaddyTB]

Yeah they arent bad. I bought 2 for a little "project".

 

I had both boards plugged in at same time and they showed up as 2 separate controllers in lomac.

 

I wont know if it all is going to work as planned in lomac till its finished,:huh: but so far I gotta say its looking good.

 

:smilewink:

[S77th-GOYA]

I thought the suncoms were a no go since there are no xp drivers.

 

They don't need special drivers. The XP generic drivers work fine.

[G3]

the first of two talons arrived today, second hand but looking in good condition.

so i did whatever any self respecting tinkerer would do, pulled the thing apart straight away :)

 

i popped open the lower back of the handle and to my horror bits and spring started falling out, but i had some time to spare so i enjoyed the challenge.

 

after carefully removing the circuit board and associated

switches from the handle i removed the gimble assembly from the base and continued to strip the stick down and clean out all the old grease from all the hat switches, pot axis joints and spareingly replaced the dried up yellow

paste. careful not to break any wiring i gave it a good clean up inside and began the reassembly process, it was very difficult to re-install the gimble assembly as the spring that centres the stick has a boot or seal over it which sit hard up against the underneath of the top of the base.

i overcame this by compressing the spring with some electrical wire, similar to the way that you compress a car spring in a macpherson strut when replacing the shocks.

this allowed me to manipulate the boot over the top of the spring and all was well once again.

it took a great deal of pressure to hold this in place while i got the screws done up holding the gimble assembly, a quick check of the boot position and locked it in place.

 

(at this point i had written quite a bit more, only to be met by the log in screen when i hit save after editing, i will come back later and perhaps continue, how annoying)

 

interally i found it to be a little bodgey in some ways, switches not really mounted, just sandwiched in between the two halves of the lower handle for example.

i also found that the guide where the wiring for the grip enters the base was letting the wiring get caught in between itself and the base which to me seemed like it would have eventually caused a failure, i sort this out with a tiny little cable tie around the exit point of the wires into the base.

 

it seems to have a fairly nice action thru out the axis range, i am yet to plug it in an check out the repsonse and signal quality it will deliver, that will be 2moro.

 

now what i would like to know is any guides as to programing the buttons etc.

the talon has like 4 red buttons on the left and a sliding black switch above them, can anyone give me a basic run down on what the go is there, cheers.

maybe a link if theres a good talon programming site......sleep now.

[S77th-GOYA]

http://web.telia.com/~u41500035/talon_guide_en.html

 

edit: and, by the way, it cannot be programmed to use key combinations. Only single keystrokes.

[zaGURUinzaSKY]

where can I get one of these old hotas?

[Cobra360]

Best bet is to keep checking ebay. I have seen them pop up a few times but I always lost out on getting one. Still trying though:joystick:

[G3]

s77th-goya, thanks for the link and only single key strokes, this may well be an issue as many commands in lockon seem to be shift+R for want of a better example.

 

i saw a small software program that may help overcome that in the post about modifying old gameport devices into usb, but unsure if its suitable in this case, apparently the other suncom set i scored has a disk, maybe it comes with some software?

 

Goya - sorry to bug you, but do you find that the single key thing is a limitation or is there a way around it, i was thinking you could setup a button or switch on the splitt throttle as say the shift and the ctrl keys?

 

thanks again for the advise and help, love your work:thumbup:

 

ps: as for finding one,

yes ebay usa seems like the best chance, unfortunately most folks don't like to post out of america. well not to australia anyhow.

 

i saw a guy selling one on a hardware site so i contacted him and what do you know, he still had it, new in box, woohoo.

good luck on your search, i too looked for ages, the sticks are a dime a dozen, its the throttle that seems to be as rare as hens teeth...

[S77th-GOYA]

The Talon works by emulating a keyboard, so any commands you want to use on the stick must be remapped in-game to single keystroke commands. I only used one mode on the Talon, so I didn't have to put much time in doing that.

[PaddyTB]

Good luck with it all subs & ggg87. I once saw one of those suncom stick / throttles on sale a couple of years ago and passed it over. Sure do wish I had grabbed it now:doh: . Especially since all these new methods of converting old gear are turning up.

 

Once you're finished updating it, it should be sensational.

 

Keep the updates coming. Good stuff.

[G3]

to my new best friend Goya:thumbup:

 

thankyou for that info, most :helpsmilie:ful.

i mentioned a program before, i think it maps joystick buttons to single or multiple keystroke commands, will investigate futher if need be.

it would be nice to leave the keyboard setup intact in game but i will make the

sacrifice if thats what it takes:joystick:

 

once again thanks to all helping and for the good luck wishes,

now i anxiously await the arrival of the throttle :music_whistling::)

and if no one would buy a set of ch pedals off ebay for aboout a week, that would be great, hehe.

[S77th-GOYA]

Just to clarify, it only has 4 "joystick buttons". The two hats are not buttons. The only way they send a command to the computer is through keyboard emulation. The trigger, release weapon, thumb switch and pinkie switch are normal joystick buttons and can be mapped directly with the in game mapping options.

 

Keep this in mind:

 

* NOTE- the LED must be lit during gameplay for all buttons and switch to perform

the keystrokes programmed to them.

I the LED is not lit, the castle and hat switches will perform their programmed keystrokes;

the other four buttons will acts as standard joystick buttons.

 

The LED that is referring to is at one o'clock relative to the castle hat. The button that activates it is at 7 o'clock relative to the coolie.

[G3]

thanks for the led light tip,

just set the stick up and calibrated it in windows, and unfortunately its performance is pretty disapointing, looks like the pots are gone, very jittery curve, maybe i can filter it out, heres hoping.

 

modding this stick is looking more and more likely :), i like the grip very much, i found it just a little too big for my hands and was not reaching the hat comfortably, i placed a piece if rubber about 1/4" thick on top of the hand rest and it totally transformed my grip position to near on perfecto.

[S77th-GOYA]

thanks for the led light tip,

just set the stick up and calibrated it in windows, and unfortunately its performance is pretty disapointing, looks like the pots are gone, very jittery curve, maybe i can filter it out, heres hoping.

 

Spray the pots out with Radio Shack contact cleaner or something similar. (not WD-40) That stuff is a little expensive but it goes a great job. ~$12 for a 4.5 oz can.

[G3]

i hit the pots with the contact cleaner, but seemed to have little impact.

 

what i noticed was the actual centre of the motion has its own kind of dead zone, and this wasnt actually in the middle of the movement,(on either x or y axis) causing my left roll to be instantly agressive and the right to have a pause in it, where i guess centre should be, this also seemed to delay the pull back motion on the vertical axis.

 

everywhere i read people are saying how bad the pots are in this product so i am seriously thinking of what way to go about modding it, i have done research on options such as digital pots which require a little ic circuit to provide say 1024 positions with a non wearing out slide, or just modifying it to take some other style pots that are easliy replaced, we shall see.

 

fitting the handles etc to a modern ch base could well be the solution in the end, for now though i have a massive hangover and am hitting the lounge, feeling a little let by it all down but thats life sometimes.

guess i expected to plug it in and go flying, was not to be.

 

strangely enough i had a modern logitech attack 3 do a similar thing to me, after only very limited use the right roll got very jittery, i seem to remember my sidewinder 3d pro gameport was by far a more reliable device, for me this stick that has yet to be beaten for its longevity.

i say this but have never owned ch gear or mant others so i am not saying for a second that the old sidewinder is the best, just the best old stick i have used personally.

[G3]

the lounge got boring quick as i couldn't stop thinking of the hotas pots :music_whistling:

 

so i pulled the stick apart again, full well knowing its a b_tch to get back together, hehe.

 

popped the pot holders out and pulled the pots out and stripped one apart.

they have a tiny little wiper and that looked full of crud, maybe its conductive grease or something, anyway i found a direct replacement for them at a local electronics components store here:

click on the overview tab and see the specs are just what the doctor ordered.

http://www.rsaustralia.com/cgi-bin/bv/rswww/searchBrowseAction.do?D=pots&Ntt=pots&Ntk=I18NAll&N=0&Nty=1&name=SiteStandard&forwardingPage=line&R=0855377&callingPage=/jsp/search/search.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@1501412230.1148795003@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccgaddhlhkmfkjcefeceefdffhdhif.0&cacheID=aunetscape&Nr=avl:au

 

the particular ones in the stick are 30mm long x 8mm wide with a 15mm travel, with a slightly less resistance which i would expect to still calibrate just fine.

will be interesting to see if these are available in a digital non-contact sweeper version.

 

something else i have decided to look into is modifying the top plate that holds down the main centering spring (under the rubber boot), at present its just part of the moulded body, if i cut this away and actually make a top plate that screws on as it looks like it does i will be able to reassemble the stick easily without having to worry about the spring tension fighting me when trying to position the lower gimble assembly back in the base.

 

i hope thats clearer than my post-intoxicated brain is at present.

anyone who has pulled one of these apart will no doubt comprehend what i am saying, reassembly in its current state is a hassle to say the least.

 

so good news on the availability of replacement pots, for now its back to the lounge...

[G3]

hello again,

massive hangover today, second week in a row involving a 14 hour:cry: drinking session, why do i do it :), my brain is jelly today but to pass the time i did my best to clean up the old pots and reassembled the suncom talon joystick, to my delight i have been able to get an acceptable level of performance out of them, i completely striped the pots out of their casings, sprayed them out with the contact cleaner again and game them a good rub with a course cloth.

 

i also increased the pressure on the sliding pickup that contacts the resistive surface.

i just bent them out by about a millimetre which seems to have done the job, time will tell if this will be a good idea or not as it may cause undesirable wear.

 

also found that the issue i had previously with the dead zone not appearing in the centre of the axis was due to the screw at the base of the pivot, this screw sets up where the pivot point is in relation to the centre of the axis, a couple of turns on the screw and everything was just beautiful.

if thats as clear as mud i am sorry, best i can describe it.

 

had a great idea about extending the shaft up to the grip to be closer to RL cockpit design, pretty much just thinking about extending the wires to the grip from the base and adding an aluminum hollow shaft.

have had a few ideas on how to rig up a completely different pot setup, as i find the original design very awkward and not service friendly.

 

about to set up the talon in 1.02 and give it a whirl, unfortunately still waiting on the second stick and the throttle.

 

now where are those nurofen, kids shhhhhhhhhhhh... :)

 

edit: after flying several missions and having a general play around i have come to the conclusion that the standard talon base just does not cut it.

the pots have their own build in deadzone which i dont like having no control over, far to much slop in the centre (spring return seems solid and reliable), maybe some tweaking of the curves is needed, i tried a few different ideas from standard to linear, with and without deadzone and it still seemed to have this massive nothingness in the middle before any movement is seen from the axis.

 

i am liking my extension idea more and more, imagine the stick between your legs as in RL, i tried it tonight and the joystick base just doesnt really fit anywhere for it to be comfortable.

it seems more natural to have the stick there (struggling as it is flying right handed :) ) instead of up on the desk or whatever, at the same time i would have to come up with a far more acurate axis input.

[SUBS17]

I guess you'll be building a pit then.:thumbup: :joystick:

[G3]

I guess you'll be building a pit then.:thumbup: :joystick:

 

funny you say that as it was just the other night i saw a really nice pit and was thinking hmmm that would be cool :)

you never know with me, doesn't take much to get a project going:thumbup:

that can be a thread of its own, as i would like to discuss pits further.

 

definately has got me thinking though.....

[SUBS17]

Fighterops is getting F-15C,D and E as flyables with full clickable pit. Due out probably next year.

[Cobra360]

A fully clickable E pit, side consoles and all, now that I'd like to see.

[SUBS17]

Well its better than nothing:thumbup: .