"Game" Freatures

[kolga]

First I want to say Thank you so much for giving us an AMAZING simulation of the MiG-21! But I have heard that there were some unrealistic features put in on purpose, for example: Nose wheel steering, CCIP Bombing reticle, etc. And i am wondering what features are unrealistic and if these still exist, and if so, Will they be fixed? Thanks again!

[Tirak]

First I want to say Thank you so much for giving us an AMAZING simulation of the MiG-21! But I have heard that there were some unrealistic features put in on purpose, for example: Nose wheel steering, CCIP Bombing reticle, etc. And i am wondering what features are unrealistic and if these still exist, and if so, Will they be fixed? Thanks again!

 

As far as I know, nose wheel steering and the limits on the engines were both removed. The only intentional 'game' element I can think of off the top of my head, is the MiG's ability to use the Grom, as the sapphire radar on board is actually incapable of guiding it.

[zaelu]

The nose steering is still a bit "arcade", it was tweaked to this "compromise" last Mig21 patch... I think. For sure it doesn't feel like the Mi15 one.

[Harle]

the limits on the engines

 

What limits?

 

P.S. Bombing CCIP still remains. LN says it's gonna be an option in DCSW2.

[Tirak]

What limits?

 

P.S. Bombing CCIP still remains. LN says it's gonna be an option in DCSW2.

 

There used to be a scripted speed limit put on the engine to prevent the player from overspeeding the aircraft. It was removed.

[WinterH]

Out of curiosity, if there isn't a bombing pipper, what is function of the S / B switch's B position on the ASP ? If there really isn't a CCIP type pipper, will it then provide a manually depressable pipper instead ?

 

(BTW, if there really isn't such functionality in real MiG-21Bis and LN intentionally put it in for gameplay sake, that is some pretty big points subtracted from LN as far as I'm concerned, however, I'm not yet entirely convinced there really isn't one)

[Zomba]

I haven't done any bombing yet, but I was guessing the pipper was based off of radar ranging like the gun is. Or am I way off mark here?

[Tarres]

The "game features" or "concessions for the gameplay" are:

 

.- the nose Wheel sterring

.- engine scripted in the edge of the flight envelope.

.- flight scripted in the edge of the flight envelope.

.- radio based in the TF-51D set (you can see it in the lua file) No UHF range of frequencies, no UHF frequencies.

.- RSBN and PRMG implementation.

.- ARK-10 implementation (17 presets chanels in the real one, 72 in the LN implementation) and radionavigation in general.

.- Radar features: ECCM, fixed beam...

.- Weapons: overmodeled R-3 types, both IR and SARH

.- ASP implementation.

 

I hope that it will be corrected in the 1.5 and post 1.5 patches.

 

Regards.

[Harle]

to prevent the player from overspeeding the aircraft.

 

Why do that? Did it go unrealistically fast without it? Like accelerating to the speed of light in a straight line?

[Art-J]

Out of curiosity, if there isn't a bombing pipper, what is function of the S / B switch's B position on the ASP ? If there really isn't a CCIP type pipper, will it then provide a manually depressable pipper instead ?

 

(BTW, if there really isn't such functionality in real MiG-21Bis and LN intentionally put it in for gameplay sake, that is some pretty big points subtracted from LN as far as I'm concerned, however, I'm not yet entirely convinced there really isn't one)

 

The "B" and "manual" modes allowed the pilot to manually depress the pipper (using angle correction knob on the right of a sight) to an angle required for each type of a bomb ordnance. No CCIP capabilities on the real thing. That was noted by finger, who was a mechanic on 21MFs...

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2350014&postcount=5

 

... and seems to be in line with what real manual says about bombing in -21Bis.

 

We can dial in angular corrections manually now already, but without any reference tables there's no point in doing so, yet.

[Art-J]

Why do that? Did it go unrealistically fast without it? Like accelerating to the speed of light in a straight line?

 

No, it was the other way around. Previously the plane on full throttle with AB was accelerating to rated top speed of Ma 2.05 and staying there magically. So we didn't have to care about engine limits at all.

 

Now If You exceed the rated speed and RPM a little, the engine will flame out. Makes top speed flights much more difficult.

[Harle]

Out of curiosity, if there isn't a bombing pipper, what is function of the S / B switch's B position on the ASP ? If there really isn't a CCIP type pipper, will it then provide a manually depressable pipper instead ?

 

>what is function of the S / B switch's B position on the ASP ?

 

To tell the plane you want to drop the bombs, not fire the rockets from the other pair of pylons.

 

>If there really isn't a CCIP type pipper, will it then provide a manually depressable pipper instead ?

 

See p.173 b) item in the bottom half of the page

https://yadi.sk/i/SQlErw0UiM9Vy

Edited August 9, 2015 by Harle

[xxJohnxx]

.- RSBN and PRMG implementation.

 

Whats about that I wonder?

[Tirak]

.- the nose Wheel sterring

I could have sworn I read that they took this out, or at least were planning to.

 

.- engine scripted in the edge of the flight envelope.

.- flight scripted in the edge of the flight envelope.

This I know they fixed.

 

.- Radar features: ECCM, fixed beam...

I knew the Sapphire couldn't do fixed beam, but it lacks ECCM too?

 

.- Weapons: overmodeled R-3 types, both IR and SARH

Is the weapon overmodeled, or just when compared to how badly undermodeled the normal ED weapons are?

 

.- ASP implementation.

This is one of the things being implemented no?

[xxJohnxx]

I knew the Sapphire couldn't do fixed beam, but it lacks ECCM too?

 

The RP-22 Sapphire can do fixed beam. I am not sure where you are getting from that it can't.

[Tarres]

Like I said, I hope these will be fixed in a medium term.

 

About the RP-22. It´s the implementation of the fixed beam and the Grom, and ECCM maybe it´sovermodeleded for an early '70 radar set.

 

NWS, flight model and engine model, are "WiP" as the developers said, and we have an "interin solution" for now. I expect to have these ítems solved in a 1.5/+1.5 patch.

 

R-3 IR and ASP implemetation: no moving ASP circle for the A-A missiles, performances like the AIM-9B or 9P, no "all aspect" capability.

 

RSBN and PRMG are modelled as a "RSBNPRMG point in a XYZ space". These sistems are independent and are implmeneted by ED in the Beacons.lua file like the real ones with asociated objects and real frequencies.

For now it´s like having a "TACANILS" for the A-10C with an only frequency, and without and asociated object.

 

Sorry for my english.

 

Tarres

[WinterH]

Regarding the A-A missiles, what bugs me is they are as smokeless as a modern AIM-9 or AIM-120.

[Art-J]

The nosewheel steering has indeed been greatly reduced, compared to release version. Of course one might argue if the rudder efficiency doesn't kick in still a bit too early (difficult to quantify it and find data on it anyway), but I don't consider it to be much of a problem now.

 

Re. radar ECCM, it's somewhat simplified indeed, but I thought it was the result of more general DCS limitations? I don't have FC3 planes, so I don't know how detailed their ECCM modelling is.

[1.JaVA_Platypus]

AI can use the R-60 in head-on engagements. Great fun if they are on your side! :D

[Tirak]

The RP-22 Sapphire can do fixed beam. I am not sure where you are getting from that it can't.

 

It would appear I based it on a misinterpretation of the Kh-66, my mistake :smartass:

[Toybasher]

The nosewheel steering has indeed been greatly reduced, compared to release version. Of course one might argue if the rudder efficiency doesn't kick in still a bit too early (difficult to quantify it and find data on it anyway), but I don't consider it to be much of a problem now.

 

Re. radar ECCM, it's somewhat simplified indeed, but I thought it was the result of more general DCS limitations? I don't have FC3 planes, so I don't know how detailed their ECCM modelling is.

 

I agree the jamming filters are a bit weird. The passive one meant for Chaff I assume is completely worthless since Chaff does not show up on radar in the first place. Active and Intermittent cause instant and complete burn through afaik, even against modern jammers.

[kolga]

Sorry for late reply. Wow, thanks guys! I own the MiG 21 and Love it, but it looks like its going to need some fixes. About the the NWS: yes it is definitely better than before but there is some rudder effectiveness at taxi speed which is what i wondered about, looks like it will get fixed.

 

What limits?

 

P.S. Bombing CCIP still remains. LN says it's gonna be an option in DCSW2.

 

That's great!

 

The "game features" or "concessions for the gameplay" are:

 

.- the nose Wheel sterring

.- engine scripted in the edge of the flight envelope.

.- flight scripted in the edge of the flight envelope.

.- radio based in the TF-51D set (you can see it in the lua file) No UHF range of frequencies, no UHF frequencies.

.- RSBN and PRMG implementation.

.- ARK-10 implementation (17 presets chanels in the real one, 72 in the LN implementation) and radionavigation in general.

.- Radar features: ECCM, fixed beam...

.- Weapons: overmodeled R-3 types, both IR and SARH

.- ASP implementation.

 

I hope that it will be corrected in the 1.5 and post 1.5 patches.

 

Regards.

 

Thanks Tarres!

 

Can you elaborate on the ASP implementation?

 

Thank all of you so much!

[Harle]

Can you elaborate on the ASP implementation?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=132696

[kolga]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=132696

 

Thanks!