CG position is correct!

[Yo-Yo]

Why do you fly with manual prop, if i may ask? For fun?

 

I nearly fly automatic in all situations. Sometimes i choose manual control for landing or take off, but it's not necessary.

 

I began to practice manual control just to check, if I can do the same things Erich Brunotte did with his 109. During our second interview about 109 he surprised me mentioning that he flew 109 using manual prop. The reason was only to feel full control not more.

I found that pitch control rate is very convenient to maintain rpm during looping, by the way.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

I began to practice manual control just to check, if I can do the same things Erich Brunotte did with his 109. During our second interview about 109 he surprised me mentioning that he flew 109 using manual prop. The reason was only to feel full control not more.

I found that pitch control rate is very convenient to maintain rpm during looping, by the way.

 

I was also inspired by Eric's interview, and that's why I started using it.

 

It was also because this was the first sim, after X-Plane, where I could have a credible simulation of a system with variable prop pitch without a CS mechanism :-) and I really like the details in flight simulation...

 

Then, the more I fly in Manual prop pitch, the more I feel how docile and tied to my control in climbs, turns and high speed descents the K4 really can be. And, just as the real 109, how unstable in yaw it can be, with a constant attention to coordination being necessary ( the ball slips away easily... ).

 

Of course if for some reason I have to use MW50 and 1,8 ATA, I still engage the auto mode.

Edited August 24, 2015 by jcomm

[IIIJG52_Otto_]

I began to practice manual control just to check, if I can do the same things Erich Brunotte did with his 109. During our second interview about 109 he surprised me mentioning that he flew 109 using manual prop. The reason was only to feel full control not more.

I found that pitch control rate is very convenient to maintain rpm during looping, by the way.

 

Why you surprised for mentioning that he flew 109 using manual prop??.

You didn't know that the Bf-109 is capable to fly in manual prop. mode?' :music_whistling:

 

Yo-Yo, Where is that second interview to Mr. Erich Brunotte? Do you have uploaded the video?

 

I'm anxious for watch the video of that interview, and listening Mr.Brunotte say something new, that we are unknowing about the Bf-109. ;)

Edited August 24, 2015 by III/JG52_Otto_+

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Why you surprised for mentioning that he flew 109 using manual prop??.

You didn't know that the Bf-109 is capable to fly in manual prop. mode?' :music_whistling:

 

Yo-Yo, Where is that second interview to Mr. Erich Brunotte? Do you have uploaded the video?

 

I'm anxious for watch the video of that interview, and listening Mr.Brunotte say something new, that we are unknowing about the Bf-109. ;)

 

Otto, might I suggest that you try it yourself, and see, and report back :-)

 

Try taking off at ATA max 1,4, picth set to 11:45. As you reach 200', gear retraction and flaps up, prepare to adjust to climb power and prop RPM. I usually set 1,25 ATA or max 1,3 ATA for the climb, and make sure RPMs go to 2300...

 

Fly the aircraft at ATA 1,2... 1,1...1,0.. 0,9 just as it should be flown IRL most of the time and adjust prop RPM...

 

Do you notice the need to even compensate tail heavy sometimes ?

 

What about the overall feel of control ?

 

Do some maneuvers.

 

Land at pitch set to 12:00

 

Enjoy ;-)

Edited August 24, 2015 by jcomm

[NineLine]

Why you surprised for mentioning that he flew 109 using manual prop??.

You didn't know that the Bf-109 is capable to fly in manual prop. mode?' :music_whistling:

 

I am sure he meant that he was surprised that Erich chose manual over automatic, not that he was surprised you could have manual control... don't be ridiculous...

 

I would be surprised too, the German planes are touted for their automatic functions and such, to know that some pilots preferred to fly in manual is interesting...

[Maverick Su-35S]

I just wanted to suggest that when trying to maintain yaw control on the take off run it helps to give quick but strong flicks of rudder to keep it in line, rather than trying to hold a constant smaller rudder deflection. Give it a quick kick back inline. Especially at lower speeds.

 

I also wanted to point out he that the Emil in the video didn't have a MW50 tank in the rear fuselage. And so we could speculate E series bf109 had less tail heavy character than Gustov and Kurfurst series for this reason. Although G % K series had heavier engine/armament forward of wing also...

 

I still wonder if the leading edge slats are popping out at too low AOA though. Does anybody else wonder about slats behaviour?

 

Hi Flieger,

 

 

I've also started applying sharp full inputs of rudder, by instinct, rather than constant (cause I saw I couldn't hold) inputs due to the yaw instability and I have an answer for why the RL pilots of WW2 were able to takeoff more easily from 2 points (but landing remained a 3 point touchdown or else they could easily roll over) is because they mainly did it from grass terrains, not from tarmac/asphalt, where the grass had lower friction coefficient and so the main gear tires could slip sideways more and more as the speed build up providing lift and thus reduce the effect of instability, but if we try doing so in DCS at this point it would be perfect suicide due to actual grass grip.

 

About the tail heavy characteristics as compared to the E model in that vid (I firstly didn't know about this difference) I also thought but I didn't know for sure, so this applies to be authentic for the K model at least.

 

About the aerodynamics of the aircraft I can say that the slats pop out about 1..2 degrees of AoA before the buffet onset (which triggers airframe shake) which is fairly good, otherwise if they deflect when the buffet already occurs it would be too late to develop a smoother airflow once the transition to turbulent already started, so from an aerodynamicist point of view this is correct as it is!

Edited August 25, 2015 by Maverick Su-35S

[IIIJG52_Otto_]

Otto, might I suggest that you try it yourself, and see, and report back :-)

 

Try taking off at ATA max 1,4, picth set to 11:45. As you reach 200', gear retraction and flaps up, prepare to adjust to climb power and prop RPM. I usually set 1,25 ATA or max 1,3 ATA for the climb, and make sure RPMs go to 2300...

 

Fly the aircraft at ATA 1,2... 1,1...1,0.. 0,9 just as it should be flown IRL most of the time and adjust prop RPM...

 

Do you notice the need to even compensate tail heavy sometimes ?

 

What about the overall feel of control ?

 

Do some maneuvers.

 

Land at pitch set to 12:00

 

Enjoy ;-)

 

I am sure he meant that he was surprised that Erich chose manual over automatic, not that he was surprised you could have manual control... don't be ridiculous...

 

I would be surprised too, the German planes are touted for their automatic functions and such, to know that some pilots preferred to fly in manual is interesting...

Dear Friends:

I tried to fly the Bf-109K4 with manual pitch control in DCS, many, many times.

The result was always the same, a few seconds of flight engine seizure.

Curiously! .. that is changed yesterday, after patch 1.2.16.431180.9

Now, I can fly the Bf-109K4, in DCS in manual pitch control perfectly.

 

I congratulate E.D. team and Yo-Yo, to improve FM, and behavior of the Bf-109K4. Now it seems a little more to what books, chronicles of the pilots say. :book:

[Crumpp]

I am sure he meant that he was surprised that Erich chose manual over automatic, not that he was surprised you could have manual control... don't be ridiculous...

 

I would be surprised too, the German planes are touted for their automatic functions and such, to know that some pilots preferred to fly in manual is interesting...

 

Not all the German automatic systems are created equally! Although folks like to compare the Bf-109's automatics to the FW-190 series the fact is there is a degree of sophistication in the FADEC like controls of the Kommandogerat that is not present in the recipe linked DB system.

 

The DB system does not have the variable datum linkage.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

I didn't notice any thing changed with yesterday's patch in the K4 ?

 

It flies and handles just as it did before, at least for me...

[Schnarre Aggro]

same for me :music_whistling:

[Solty]

Maybe because patch has changed only some issue with a manual and gunsight.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Exactly,

 

my post was meant to answer Otto.

[Solty]

Exactly,

 

my post was meant to answer Otto.

Oh, yeah. I didn't notice sorry:( I am tired today :P

 

And yes, the 109 flies as it flew. I tried once to make a manual flight and did it for 1 turn around the field and i didn't notice that my throttle (very old) moved itself to 1.8ata and overreved me :P I don't like the 109's manual prop system. I flew with it first in CloD BF109E3... its not that much of a fun to me.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Solty

[IIIJG52_Otto_]

Exactly,

 

my post was meant to answer Otto.

 

I´m Sorry, i don´t remember the exactly date when I felt changes in the K4 FM, or behavior.

I supposed that something is changed in patch:

1.2.16.42796.8 (August 9th, 2015) or in the last 1.2.16.43180.9 (August 24, 2015)

Because, my comrades and I were trying to fly, 3 or 2 weeks ago, in manual pitch control with Bf-109 K4 in multiplayer online server, without success. The result was engine seizure all the time.

 

Officially, there is no "tweaks" in the FM of Bf-109K4 since April this year. :music_whistling:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=140468

 

the day before yesterday i was fly the K4 about a quarter of hour in manual pitch, and full power without problems. :thumbup:

 

My next challenge is to try to make a Cuban Eight, with the bf-109, and with manual pitch control like real Bf-109G2 said in this book. They do it in the airshows. :joystick:

 

 

The Bf-109G2 "black-6" is the last and only, Me-109 original German built (No Buchon fuselage), in airworthy conditions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlUTFi3cN00

Edited August 28, 2015 by III/JG52_Otto_+

[NineLine]

Practice is sometimes the best bug fix ;)

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Practice is sometimes the best bug fix ;)

Indeed... :lol: :thumbup:

 

 

 

The only settings I have for certain are my takeoff and landing settings:

 

TAKEOFF: prop pitch gauge at 11:45, ATA max 1,4

LANDING: prop pitch gauge showing 12:00, ATA as required

 

For the rest of the flight I adjust prop pitch by setting a given ATA and then adjusting RPM. If I climb or descend, or change ATA, then again I have to adjust prop pitch to stay within the required Prop RPM.

 

IF I set emmergency power ( mw50 ) then I use only auto-prop.

 

I never use ATA 1,8 for more than 10 seconds aprox.

Glad to hear you finally found your way to handle 109. You can now understand what I told about how pleasant is to fly her with correct settings, engine, trim, etc :smilewink:.

 

S!

[Maverick Su-35S]

Practice is sometimes the best bug fix ;)

 

Hi man! Sorry to intervene, but "Otto" most probably have referred to the engine seizure phenomena before the patch which seems to have disappeared after the patch, so he probably didn't change his flying techniques and engine management at all.

 

I don't know, it's up to him to answer this, not me..., I'm only curious if he really referred to the manual pitch engine seizure before and after that patch without treating the engine differently in between. That's when tracks are of 100% value of truth, but maybe now he can't revert to the earlier version in order to make the comparison by tracks.

[NineLine]

Its possible something got fixed ninja style, but I asked Yo-Yo and he doesnt know what that would have been to change anything like this for him.

[NineLine]

This is such an insult to any customer. As a small business owner i wouldn't even dream of saying this to a customer who found a flaw with any of my products.

i'm disappointed with you.

 

Actually otto its not an insult at all, its a very valid point, one that has effected me in the past as well, especially with these WWII birds... swearing that something must be broke, only to find after practice and understanding how something works that it was indeed just seat time I needed. At any rate... this thread is drifting into the abyss, so lets end on this note and meet in the next one.