HOTAS Warthog woes

[Mayo2017]

Tossing this out there in case anyone else has run into the same issues. :joystick:

 

Got a new TM Warthog (38000-range serial) about 5 days ago, and was impressed by it, but over the past few days a few things have cropped up that are driving me mad:

 

 

• Stiction developing in all directions, most noticeably to the rear.
  
• Slop in centre of travel, towards the left only. Firm in all other directions.
  
• Very "dry" feeling in some areas, like there's friction where there shouldn't be.
  
• Occasional springing sound when pushed forward, as if a spring were binding on something.
  
• CMS switch is quite loose and touchy.
  

 

• Throttles become stuck, even at minimum friction, after sitting for more than a minute, and take a good push to break free, preventing small adjustments without first unsticking the levers. Annoying in solo cruise, a deal-breaker in AAR and tight formations.
  
• Throttles have a grinding feel in top half of range.
  
• Right throttle lever has a fairly large wiggle to it, like a screw isn't tightened down all the way.
  
• Throttles are sloppy in response - some wiggle room before the axis actually responds and the friction engages, making the friction control pretty pointless since it's impossible to make reasonable adjustments with it enabled.
  
• Mic switch up response is a bit erratic, and push feels really loose.
  
• Slew hat is slow and jittery, with a noticeable lag and an update rate around 4Hz, which is very noticeable when trying to do any precise control.
  
• Plastic parts on speedbrake switch, boat switch, china hat switch, and flaps switch are very loose and wobble around quite a bit.
  
• "Friction" axis on right side of panel also has grinding feels throughout its range.
  

 

Considering the glowing praise this thing gets, I must've drawn the shortest straw in the whole factory. I'm almost preferring my Saitek X52 over this, and that's atrociously sloppy (not to mention like 6+ years out of warranty). Anyone else run in to any/all of this crap? This would be a wonky HOTAS at $100 USD, let alone quadruple that.

[Harle]

I'll try to divide the mentioned flaws into following groups:

 

Flaws that bothered me a lot:

*The flightstick sticktion.

 

Flaws I can live with:

*Loose throttle handles when uncoupled.

*Minijoystick uncomfortable to use.

 

"Flaws" I don't really consider to be flaws:

*CMS switch is quite loose and touchy.

*Plastic parts on speedbrake switch, boat switch, china hat switch, and flaps switch are very loose and wobble around quite a bit.

*Mic switch up response is a bit erratic, and push feels really loose.

 

Flaws I didn't find in my TM Warthog set:

*Slop in centre of travel, towards the left only. Firm in all other directions.

*Very "dry" feeling in some areas, like there's friction where there shouldn't be.

*Occasional springing sound when pushed forward, as if a spring were binding on something.

*Throttles become stuck, even at minimum friction, after sitting for more than a minute, and take a good push to break free, preventing small adjustments without first unsticking the levers.

*Throttles have a grinding feel in top half of range.

*"Friction" axis on right side of panel also has grinding feels throughout its range.

 

 

All in all I'm quite content with the throttle. As for the stick, I tried lubricating it with Molykote. It started moving noticeably smoother, but the sticktion just wouldn't go away. It appears to be an inherest flaw of the tension mechanism itself. The pressure plate sits way too tight on the guide rods. But if you try to widen a little the holes those rods go through, the stick gets a considerable center free play. Thus having trashed my Warthog joystick I bought myself a VKB Black Mamba.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Harle

[Mayo2017]

"Loose throttle handles when uncoupled" isn't it. Coupled or uncoupled doesn't matter, same things happen either way.

[Deezle]

Most of what you mentioned is just how they are. I had an X55 before and I still don't regret purchasing my WH.

 

While the slew button isn't great, most of the problem is the default axis tune it has, play with that and it's a lot better.

[Harle]

"Loose throttle handles when uncoupled" isn't it. Coupled or uncoupled doesn't matter, same things happen either way.

 

Well... feels solid enough for me when coupled. Mayhap you got really unlucky with your buy...

[PiedDroit]

Hi, you should contact the manufacturer as you shouldn't have that many issues. You could expect some little issues but nothing that big.

 

To give you an idea, mine is 3 years old, I only disassembled it to polish the "ball" and put some brand new grease.

I also added a little plastic tab on the right throttle because it was too wobly to my taste but nothing dramatic.

All switches are working perfectly, some are a bit loose but they work fine and they don't deteriorate over time so it seem normal.

[Mayo2017]

Most of what you mentioned is just how they are. I had an X55 before and I still don't regret purchasing my WH.

 

While the slew button isn't great, most of the problem is the default axis tune it has, play with that and it's a lot better.

 

Nope on the slew, my problems with it show up outside DCS as well, be it FSX, the control panel, or TARGET.

 

If this is the kind of thing I can expect for my money, I think I may just ditch this paperweight for a CH Fighterstick, use my perfectly good X-52 throttle (feels better than the TM one!), and save myself almost $300.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Mayo2017

[Mayo2017]

Update: It's not just me complaining - the switches on the stick were wiggling around, so I took a good look, and entire top part of the stick is literally coming apart! All the screws in the top few cm of the stick are backing out of their holes. Explains too why the throttle feels more and more sloppy as time goes on. Upon closer examination of the throttle levers, you can see the seams opening up when you wiggle the handles around. More loose screws, it seems.

 

The grinding feel has eased up a bit over time, and it looks like it's due to burrs on the the part of the throttle that contacts the friction brake. Visually confirmed this by taking off the detent-swap cover and looking down there.

[Sporg]

Mayo2017 I believe you got a dud, and you should exchange it if you can.

This is based mostly on the erratic behavior of the stick and throttle.

 

The other points I guess I more or less have on mine too (especially "loose" buttons) but it doesn't bother me that much.

 

With that said, it seems that TM has been slacking its quality control lately:

I had problems with the first full HOTAS set I bought (end part of the 39xxx series) and the joystick could not move fully to the upper left corner.

It was like it knocked on some rubber.

The next one I got had a similar issue in another corner, but when pressing it there was like a snap (like a rubber piece seating itself) and the issue was gone.

On this stick I get a dry grinding sound in some positions, and it seems this has worsened as it happens in more positions now.

I probably will have to take it apart and lubricate.

 

Edit: Your latest observations just confirm my suspicion of slacked quality control at TM.

 

In comparison I got an old stick only (which I got secondhand) in the 14xxx series, and this stick is completely smooth and has no problems whatsoever in movement.

 

Mind you, Saitek is no better: I had a secondhand x52, and here it was working absolutely perfect, switches were fine, and especially mouse and rotaries on the throttle were centered like they should. Programming worked fine too. Only problem was that the stick was too sloppy for helicopter flying due to wear in the gimbals.

 

I had to buy a new set, and while the stick was better, the throttle was off in all rotaries _and_ the mouse. None of them are centered.

And on top of that, that electronics has issues, it crashes frequently if programmed, and the USB lighting flickers.

This I can only attribute to sloppy quality control.

 

Edit: Your latest observation only confirms my suspicion of slacked quality control at TM.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Sporg

[Corbett1403]

Why hasn't Thustmaster sorted the sticktion out this problem seems to be ongoing with it. Iv only started using mine but if I get the sticktion problem I would ask for a replacement. The cost of this setup these things should not be happening.

[Rogue Trooper]

How do you guys mean loose buttons; "wobbly" or too easy to activate.

I cannot find one loose button on the stick itself.

 

Definitely send it back Mayo2017, sounds like you got a dud or a unit that someone has been playing with.

 

I thought the stick was great at purchase. The only annoyance (from the beginning) being the stickation (is that the word?), especially for a chopper simmer.

[Deezle]

How do you guys mean loose buttons; "wobbly" or too easy to activate.

I cannot find one loose button on the stick itself.

 

Definitely send it back Mayo2017, sounds like you got a dud or a unit that someone has been playing with.

 

I thought the stick was great at purchase. The only annoyance (from the beginning) being the stickation (is that the word?), especially for a chopper simmer.

I think he means sloppy, such as the mic switch and CMS hat. Which they are compared to the other hats but are perfectly usable. I find the pinky switch is sloppy as well. The china hat could feel better too.

 

It's a $400 amalgamation of metal and plastic and will never feel as good as the real thing.

[Rogue Trooper]

Then yes I agree the CMS and Mic switch push are poor and difficult to activate reliably, although the CMS is better but not perfect.

The pinky Toggle is too easy to activate in both directions but is fine for me.

[WildBillKelsoe]

return merchandise ASAP

[FeistyLemur]

My sticks a couple weeks old and the sticktion is starting to get quite noticeable, particularly when pulling back. I have some tamiya grease coming and plan to polish and re-grease as soon as it arrives.

 

But other than that everything is pretty great. Some of the throttle buttons could behave better. The push down on the 4 way thumb hand is pretty finicky, and the toggle on the side of the small throttle is really wobbly. All the other buttons are almost too crisp.

 

Thrustmaster support is hilarious. I had a problem with the collar being too tight and not being able to get it undone, so I emailed them and said "I'm afraid of breaking the gimbal". After 2 weeks they replied, and answered, "the stick doesn't have a gimbal, read the manual about how to unscrew the collar." Much helpful.

[Sokol1_br]

"the stick doesn't have a gimbal

 

They call this "articulation sphere". :)

[Wrecking Crew]

Hmmmm, with the screws backing out, I wonder if your Warthog was previously owned? Google this to see if the S/N comes up --

thrustmaster warthog serial (put your S/N here)

 

I own two Warthogs and have been quite happy with both since 2009/2011.

 

WC

[FeistyLemur]

They call this "articulation sphere". :)

 

 

 

Yes if there's one thing I enjoy in my technical support it's waiting two weeks to be told I used the incorrect term and not even told what the correct term (which a forum poster just told me in under 24 hours) is. Or anything useful about the problem.