Flight model

[Irregular programming]

My apologies. Sarcasm can be hard to detect in written form....

 

I make up for that by being perpetually sarcastic. :music_whistling:

[Crumpp]

I actually jumped in with a sarcastic attempt at humor but deleted it. :music_whistling:

 

Instead, I will take the opportunity to welcome Heli3 to the community. You will find it is generally speaking a well educated and more mature group of folks.

 

Please clearly state what you think is not correct.

 

You will find the developers communicate with the community and answer most questions with a lot of patience even when it is clear the audience does not understand the answer. Bear with it and you will find this sim is very rewarding.

 

:thumbup:

[Python]

In my opinion Mustang flight model is in beta.

 

Compare it with the IL-2 Sturmovik 1946. DCS Mustang flies more like Flight Simulator.

 

 

 

 

No, just no. The DCS: P51d has a pretty good flight model imo, it's probably the best WW2 era sim I've ever flow in terms of just the actual aircraft functions and feeling.

[Bucic]

Is there a Flight model matrix somewhere for all DCS modules?

[sobek]

Is there a Flight model matrix somewhere for all DCS modules?

 

Not that i am aware of, care to make one? :)

[chaos]

Whats a flightmodel matrix? :)

[Bucic]

Not that i am aware of, care to make one? :)

Of course not :sly:

Whats a flightmodel matrix? :)

A table or a list: module - type of FM.

 

Edit:

How about a link to the official post discussing the differences between FM's...

Edited September 8, 2015 by Bucic

[=Mac=]

From my flight last night (single player), I was trying to do a snap roll. Previously, pull back hard with full right rudder and you got a very brisk snap roll to the right. With the FM last night, she refused to do it. I tried to ease the pulling only to get very weird physics tossing the plane around.

 

So I tried one to the left. I pulled hard (not full, just about 3/4 the way back) and kicked left rudder and eventually got some semblance of a snap roll.

 

The flight model has been seriously changed since I started flying it last year (?) when it first came out. Aerobatics "at the edge" is now, in my opinion, not realistic.

[Crumpp]

From my flight last night (single player), I was trying to do a snap roll. Previously, pull back hard with full right rudder and you got a very brisk snap roll to the right. With the FM last night, she refused to do it. I tried to ease the pulling only to get very weird physics tossing the plane around.

 

So I tried one to the left. I pulled hard (not full, just about 3/4 the way back) and kicked left rudder and eventually got some semblance of a snap roll.

 

The flight model has been seriously changed since I started flying it last year (?) when it first came out. Aerobatics "at the edge" is now, in my opinion, not realistic.

 

The FM snap rolls very realistically if you perform the snap roll correctly.

 

Pulling back hard and applying full rudder is not a snap roll nor will a real aircraft do one with that control input.

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/a6585/how-to-snap-roll-a-stunt-plane/

[Crumpp]

Practice....there is a reason why snap rolls are one of the most difficult aerobatic maneuvers to correctly perform. A lot is going on in a very short period of time!

[=Mac=]

Thanks for the link, Crumpp. However, (and perhaps I didn't express myself too well), the directions given by Kirby Chambliss is precisely what I did to get a snap roll (ha! three years ago!) in the P-51. What I was saying about last night was that the P-51 refused to do it. It would not continue with the right wing stall giving the "snap". From Mr. Chambliss's text:

 

2. Rapidly and aggressively pull the control stick back to abruptly pitch the nose of the plane upward.

 

3. Step on the right rudder pedal, causing the left wing to lift and move forward while the right wing stalls"For a normal roll, you'd gently pull the stick back to move the nose up," Chambliss says. "For a snap-roll it has to be super-fast in order to stall the wing." Hold on. "The plane will be spinning at an extremely high rotation rate of about 500 degrees per second as the left wing flies, causing a huge lift, and the right wing stalls, causing no lift."

 

I will try again tonight to make sure the FM will not allow the snap roll properly. Here is a YouTube video from 2012 that shows one of my old snap rolls.

 

 

[NineLine]

Is there a Flight model matrix somewhere for all DCS modules?

 

Yes

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=122801

 

See the attached word file.

[msalama]

not realistic

This may be a daft question, but are you sure your JS is giving you full control surface deflection?

[=Mac=]

I just flew it again, this time at Sochi... not that location matters. :) And, yes, the Joystick is the TM Warthog and gives me full input without issues.

 

The snap roll CAN be accomplished. However, for some reason, sometimes, I get a weird reaction. (Thus why I made my initial post about it.)

 

Here is the YouTube video of my track:

 

[Bucic]

Yes

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=122801

 

See the attached word file.

I was searching for exactly this topic but the forum search function did not return any meaningful results when I used: 'wind tunnel professional flight model' keywords. Or no results at all when I used: 'AFM PFM generation flight model' or something along the lines.

 

Thank you!

 

PS. I wish ED stopped relying on the forums to publish such vital information.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

IIRC some handbook, wasn't intentional snap rolls forbidden in P-51? If it was may be there was a reason.

 

S!

[Bucic]

Thanks for the link, Crumpp. However, (and perhaps I didn't express myself too well), the directions given by Kirby Chambliss is precisely what I did to get a snap roll (ha! three years ago!) in the P-51. What I was saying about last night was that the P-51 refused to do it. It would not continue with the right wing stall giving the "snap". From Mr. Chambliss's text:

 

2. Rapidly and aggressively pull the control stick back to abruptly pitch the nose of the plane upward.

 

3. Step on the right rudder pedal, causing the left wing to lift and move forward while the right wing stalls"For a normal roll, you'd gently pull the stick back to move the nose up," Chambliss says. "For a snap-roll it has to be super-fast in order to stall the wing." Hold on. "The plane will be spinning at an extremely high rotation rate of about 500 degrees per second as the left wing flies, causing a huge lift, and the right wing stalls, causing no lift."

 

I will try again tonight to make sure the FM will not allow the snap roll properly. Here is a YouTube video from 2012 that shows one of my old snap rolls.

 

 

[YOUTUBE]V8P01NPBt7s[/]

Weird. I could swear that during my practice sessions I was kicking the left pedal. I mean a real stunt plane. Are there two types of snap rolls?

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Weird. I could swear that during my practice sessions I was kicking the left pedal. I mean a real stunt plane. Are there two types of snap rolls?

You can roll both sides. It's just easier or harder going with or against torque.

 

S!

[Bucic]

You can roll both sides. It's just easier or harder going with or against torque.

 

S!

I imagine a certain combination of snap roll direction, rudder effectiveness and prop torque may lead to an outright departure...

[Bucic]

IIRC some handbook, wasn't intentional snap rolls forbidden in P-51? If it was may be there was a reason.

 

S!

From what I know this was the case for many if not most of airframes.

[Yo-Yo]

At this crazy speed the pedal can not be deflected to cause significant sideslip. Early version can be without the hinge moment restriction.

[Crumpp]

Thanks for the link, Crumpp. However, (and perhaps I didn't express myself too well), the directions given by Kirby Chambliss is precisely what I did to get a snap roll (ha! three years ago!) in the P-51. What I was saying about last night was that the P-51 refused to do it. It would not continue with the right wing stall giving the "snap". From Mr. Chambliss's text:

 

2. Rapidly and aggressively pull the control stick back to abruptly pitch the nose of the plane upward.

 

3. Step on the right rudder pedal, causing the left wing to lift and move forward while the right wing stalls"For a normal roll, you'd gently pull the stick back to move the nose up," Chambliss says. "For a snap-roll it has to be super-fast in order to stall the wing." Hold on. "The plane will be spinning at an extremely high rotation rate of about 500 degrees per second as the left wing flies, causing a huge lift, and the right wing stalls, causing no lift."

 

I will try again tonight to make sure the FM will not allow the snap roll properly. Here is a YouTube video from 2012 that shows one of my old snap rolls.

 

 

 

You forgot step 4 which is the most important if you want to do a snap roll.

 

4. Guide the stick forward and depress the left rudder pedal to re-engage airflow to the right wing. Here's where timing comes in. "You need to get the plane upright so you don't get stuck upside-down or on its side. The goal is to snap the right wing back into action, getting the airflow to reattach itself to the wing in order to straighten the plane out." This is easier said than done. "I've been doing this so long, I'm really at one with my planes," Mr. Chambliss says. "I think of the wings as extensions of my arms."

 

:smilewink:

 

That is why your snap rolls are not smooth in DCS. Try it.

[Crumpp]

At this crazy speed the pedal can not be deflected to cause significant sideslip. Early version can be without the hinge moment restriction.

 

Good point Yo-Yo....

 

Entry speed makes a huge difference. IRL, it will kill you.

[BSS_Sniper]

The FM snap rolls very realistically if you perform the snap roll correctly.

 

Pulling back hard and applying full rudder is not a snap roll nor will a real aircraft do one with that control input.

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/a6585/how-to-snap-roll-a-stunt-plane/

 

I'm a bit late to this thread and Crumpp beat me to it. I always hear people on flight sims say something doesn't seem realistic, but what are you comparing it to if you've never flown a real plane? Most likely, someone wasn't doing a snap roll correctly and has never really done one. No offense.

[WildBillKelsoe]

OP: if you want your head to tilt because of G forces, you can enable this in options menu. There is a tickbox for "head movement with G-forces".