M2000 vs Mig-21

[Hook47]

That isn't a benchmark for anything.

 

If you start on someone's six and you can't stay there, either your really suck, or your plane does, or both. Generally it isn't the aircraft.

 

Agreed. it appears the M-2000C started on the Falcons 6. If there is any US bird that could give the mirage a run in the merge on STT and ITR it should be the F-16

[Corsair]

16's ITR is inferior. The 2000 has a clear edge at the beginning of an engagement.

[ttaylor0024]

Low speed handling of the Mirage makes MiG drivers furious

 

 

He was promptly dispatched.

[Pilotasso]

16's ITR is inferior. The 2000 has a clear edge at the beginning of an engagement.

 

heh, but by how much?

[mattebubben]

Too bad the MiG 21 is the only bird in game I feel confident in my ability to take on ATM

 

 

well thats because the M2000 is not done yet =P.

 

So many of the combat functions are yet to be implimented so you cant expect it to be able to go head to head with F-15s or Su-27s.

 

When its done it will be lethal as long as you play to its strengths.

[sirscorpion]

Collection of some Mig21 vs M2000 fights,

https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/3z1r4f/mig21_vs_m2000_stream_highlights/

 

So here is my view on it after playing 3 days in that server, The m2000 Will be able to take out migs easily after its issues are fixed, its simply a better aircraft.

 

The thing about however is mig drivers, including my self, who play it in PVP have learned the way to the ambush the hard way facing F-15 and Su27 which are far more lethal than the m2k, so i was able to maintain a positive KD till the last day, where the M2000 started to learn and hit the 10 flight hour mark.

 

First day as a Mig21 I was getting a 3:1 to a 4:1 KD, the second day was around 2:1, the 3rd day was around 1.5:1, quite sure that will drop after all of the issues of the m2k are fixed mainly RWR, IFF, and Missile drag, along with the fact where M2k pilots stop flying at marking altitude to our base just to be intercepted.

 

Another note is that the server had a viability mod engaged so it was far easier for the 21 to find targets "I love that mod, hope it gets fixed and tuned but its amazing for the 21"I am quite sure without that the m2k will be far better due to its great radar.

[OxideMako]

Collection of some Mig21 vs M2000 fights,

https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/3z1r4f/mig21_vs_m2000_stream_highlights/

Another note is that the server had a viability mod engaged so it was far easier for the 21 to find targets "I love that mod, hope it gets fixed and tuned but its amazing for the 21"I am quite sure without that the m2k will be far better due to its great radar.

 

IIRC model visibility is set to ENLARGED by the server. It is awesome fun, even if some of the MIRAGE pilots seem very new to combat sims. (Most Mirage pilots ATM won't respond to simple RAYGUN calls. Hell, at one point my flight lead got railed by another Mirage's magic while RTB, even after we locked him and called RAYGUN. Twice...) And it does not help that ATM "21" on RWR is actually the Mirage, and "UK" is the MiG.

 

The Mirages v MiGs server is great fun now, but after the 530/550 fixes, IFF and radar antenna slew are implemented, it will be a different story. But love it right now when flying as either side!

Edited January 2, 2016 by OxideMako

[ttaylor0024]

IIRC model visibility is set to ENLARGED by the server. It is awesome fun, even if some of the MIRAGE pilots seem very new to combat sims. (Most Mirage pilots ATM won't respond to simple RAYGUN calls. Hell, at one point my flight lead got railed by another Mirage's magic while RTB, even after we locked him and called RAYGUN. Twice...) And it does not help that ATM "21" on RWR is actually the Mirage, and "UK" is the MiG.

 

The Mirages v MiGs server is great fun now, but after the 530/550 fixes, IFF and radar antenna slew are implemented, it will be a different story. But love it right now when flying as either side!

 

I feel the same way. I've been killed by the MiG only twice in the last 5 days or so... The rest have been team kills. One case I even disengaged, flew over the water and said "buddy" at least 5 times. I can't count how many times I've been killed right after takeoff by someone thinking a MiG got in the middle of the 15 of us at base.

[King_Hrothgar]

I had a lot of fun flying both planes on the Mirage vs MiG-21 server the first 2 days but after that it quickly turned into a complete slaughter. The MiG-21 really doesn't fair any better against a semi-competent Mirage than it does against the Su-27.

[sirscorpion]

I can't count how many times I've been killed right after takeoff by someone thinking a MiG got in the middle of the 15 of us at base.

 

Happens With the Mig21 as well, I got killed 2km after taking off, now with a working IFF, i am over our base, the Mig21 has a smoke trail of a steam engine, and yet team kills. amazing some times.

[Hook47]

I had a lot of fun flying both planes on the Mirage vs MiG-21 server the first 2 days but after that it quickly turned into a complete slaughter. The MiG-21 really doesn't fair any better against a semi-competent Mirage than it does against the Su-27.

 

The M-2000C is obviously a better fighter than the MiG, despite the MiG being an incredible Gen 3 fighter, and it will be helped when the features are finished.

 

That being said, I would MUUUUUCH rather fight the Mirage in my mig than a Flanker.

[Hook47]

Low speed handling of the Mirage makes MiG drivers furious

 

 

He was promptly dispatched.

 

Can't argue about it's low speed prowess being a beautiful thing, but it that MiG was me or some of the guys I fly with, you'd been dead. :)

[ttaylor0024]

Can't argue about it's low speed prowess being a beautiful thing, but it that MiG was me or some of the guys I fly with, you'd been dead. :)

 

No arguing there, I would have killed me. He had already put a few rounds into me when he showed up out of nowhere, but I was so slow that he couldn't pull the same AOA without stalling because of the FBW help.

 

Happens With the Mig21 as well, I got killed 2km after taking off, now with a working IFF, i am over our base, the Mig21 has a smoke trail of a steam engine, and yet team kills. amazing some times.

 

The absurdity of that made me laugh. The MiG has been out forever, how do people not know how to IFF still? I guess because it's one of the few PvP servers that's not the 104th people don't have a whole lot of experience.

Edited January 2, 2016 by ttaylor0024

[Hummingbird]

That wasn't strictly my question. What the charts don't say is what happens to your airspeed during said turn, right? There is were I think the Eagle may do better. Maybe even the MiG. I haven't tested it much since this is beta.

 

The charts show this with the Ps=0 line which shows the sustained turn rate, i.e. the max rate of turn that the aircraft can sustain indeifinitely without losing speed or altitude at specific speeds until fuel runs out.

 

When the Mirage gets fixed to match its real life performance (which hopefully happens with the next update), it should outperform the F-15C slightly in STR and significantly in ITR. The MiG-21 isn't even going to be close regardless of load out.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Hummingbird

[Hook47]

No arguing there, I would have killed me. He had already put a few rounds into me when he showed up out of nowhere, but I was so slow that he couldn't pull the same AOA without stalling because of the FBW help.

 

 

 

The absurdity of that made me laugh. The MiG has been out forever, how do people not know how to IFF still? I guess because it's one of the few PvP servers that's not the 104th people don't have a whole lot of experience.

 

None the less good flying on your part.

 

I think part of the issue with MiG failing to IFF is the radar is a little bit of a hassle to IFF with in the heat of the moment, and they take a chance and get too trigger happy with R-60s. I ere on the side of caution to avoid friendly fire even if it puts me at peril. It just sucks getting killed by a team mate after a long sortie so I don't want to be part of the problem.

 

Probably one of my favorite incidents of getting into a jam when trying to avoid FF was when I was in a MiG on the 104th not too long ago. I was in a TRE with several aircraft that turned into a furball. I saw an opportunity to get on a F-15s ass but my radar was no longer operating. I called for the guy who I THOUGHT it was in TS to pop two flares. Sure enough two flares come out of the eagle so I break off. As I am turning left while my former target is hard right, what should I see off my 9 but another Eagle with two freshly popped flares behind it. I couldn't believe how bad my luck was... My target had popped flares at the exact same time I asked my friendly too, and he was now right on my six... LOL. Thankfully my buddy bailed me out and I escaped with some damaged from an Aim-9.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Hook47

[ttaylor0024]

None the less good flying on your part.

 

I think part of the issue with MiG failing to IFF is the radar is a little bit of a hassle to IFF with in the heat of the moment, and they take a chance and get too trigger happy with R-60s. I ere on the side of caution to avoid friendly fire even if it puts me at peril. It just sucks getting killed by a team mate after a long sortie so I don't want to be part of the problem.

 

Probably one of my favorite incidents of getting into a jam when trying to avoid FF was when I was in a MiG on the 104th not too long ago. I was in a TRE with several aircraft that turned into a furball. I saw an opportunity to get on a F-15s ass but my radar was no longer operating. I called for the guy who I THOUGHT it was in TS to pop two flares. Sure enough two flares come out of the eagle so I break off. As I am turning left while my former target is hard right, what should I see off my 9 but another Eagle with two freshly popped flares behind it. I couldn't believe how bad my luck was... My target had popped flares at the exact same time I asked my friendly too, and he was now right on my six... LOL. Thankfully my buddy bailed me out and I escaped with some damaged from an Aim-9.

 

I've been put in the same spot. I can't count how many times I've been on the tail of a Flanker or Eagle in the MiG, desperately trying to IFF only to break off because I couldn't tell for sure. Can't wait for IFF to come to the Mirage

[LuSi_6]

2 night(!) kills in my MiG vs 2 M2000 :) one R3R head on and one R13 right in his 6. pitch black night, the MiGs Radar isn't that useless ;)

[otto]

Low speed handling of the Mirage makes MiG drivers furious

 

 

He was promptly dispatched.

 

 

 

Both planes are works of art.

But tonight mirage drivers got migd.

[gavagai]

I had a lot of fun flying both planes on the Mirage vs MiG-21 server the first 2 days but after that it quickly turned into a complete slaughter. The MiG-21 really doesn't fair any better against a semi-competent Mirage than it does against the Su-27.

 

I've seen that server. In the Mig-21 I can barely beat an AI Mirage 2000 let alone a human controlled adversary, so I never even attempted it.

[Hook47]

I've seen that server. In the Mig-21 I can barely beat an AI Mirage 2000 let alone a human controlled adversary, so I never even attempted it.

 

The current M-2000C has some overpowered performance issues, but also others that might need tweaking up, the AI is worse. I find human M-2000C pilots to usually be more reasonable than the most diffucult AI because the AI breaks laws of physics :D

 

Can't say I agree though, I'm still getting kills and maintaining a reasonable if not positive K/D ratio in the 21, but also in the M-2000C. It depends on how you fly both, despite the advantages of the Mirage. M-2000C vs MiG 21 is probably still a much better match up than pitting the M-2000C against an Eagle, Flanker, or Fulcrum were it would quickly be in the MiG 21s shoes... maybe worse with the unfinished features.

 

 

Both planes are works of art.

But tonight mirage drivers got migd.

 

Good kill! Agreed I love both planes, although the adventures and hair raising moments, along with immense satisfaction from hard earned success that I have experienced in the MiG 21 has earned it a very special place in my heart! MiG haters, critics, those who write it off or just have no interest in the bird will never understand how rewarding it is to take up such a legendary yet old fighter and come back sucessful. I don't think the F-5, F-104, or other fighters from the 21s day could pull some off some of the exploits I have had in that plane, although I cannot wait to try in the F-5!

Edited January 4, 2016 by Hook47

[T_A]

I love the MiG21 , best made module in DCS imo .

 

also imo , once the Mirage 2000C is feature complete, mostly buggless and with proper FM , it would wipe the floor with the MiG21 just like FC3 planes can do most of the time.

 

(yes i`m aware that good pilots with GCI support can also be deadly against FC3 planes)

[TomCatMucDe]

The current M-2000C has some overpowered performance issues, but also others that might need tweaking up, the AI is worse. I find human M-2000C pilots to usually be more reasonable than the most diffucult AI because the AI breaks laws of physics :D

 

Can't say I agree though, I'm still getting kills and maintaining a reasonable if not positive K/D ratio in the 21, but also in the M-2000C. It depends on how you fly both, despite the advantages of the Mirage. M-2000C vs MiG 21 is probably still a much better match up than pitting the M-2000C against an Eagle, Flanker, or Fulcrum were it would quickly be in the MiG 21s shoes... maybe worse with the unfinished features.

 

 

 

Good kill! Agreed I love both planes, although the adventures and hair raising moments, along with immense satisfaction from hard earned success that I have experienced in the MiG 21 has earned it a very special place in my heart! MiG haters, critics, those who write it off or just have no interest in the bird will never understand how rewarding it is to take up such a legendary yet old fighter and come back sucessful. I don't think the F-5, F-104, or other fighters from the 21s day could pull some off some of the exploits I have had in that plane, although I cannot wait to try in the F-5!

 

I for once agree with you. The MiG is legendary, and every kill is enjoyable more than any other more powerfull plane. The fights against the F5 will be even more epic. I wont be purchasing it, but i will love fighting it.

[Hummingbird]

The current M-2000C has some overpowered performance issues, but also others that might need tweaking up, the AI is worse. I find human M-2000C pilots to usually be more reasonable than the most diffucult AI because the AI breaks laws of physics :D

 

I am wondering which it is you consider "might be" issues?

 

If its the current massive lack of sustained turn performance it is anything but a "might be" issue, you don't just loose over 2 G's in sustainable load factor :D

 

That the Mirage is currently 'just' able to sustain the load factor at SL that Ball & Pawloski's chart shows it to be capable of sustaining at 15,000 ft should be a clue ;)

[XeNoise]

Hi folks,

 

I was just wondering how the 21 compares to the M2000.

 

In my eyes they're very similar. Short range interceptors, short range radar, 4 pylons and a gun. No questions that the M2000 has better avionics and better missiles.

But I read that the M2000 is a quite bad turner, good roll rate though.

I wonder if a clean Mig(only one R60 at pylon 1&2) is faster due to very nice thrust to weigh ratio. In addition, turn should be almost equal or in favor of the Mig?

 

anyway, can't wait for release

After two weeks of trying it i can say that the mig doesn't have any chance against the mirage. This only theoretically speaking, if both pilots would be skilled the same. Practically a mig can still be really dangerous, even towards an f-15, a lot of skilled pilots in this community which knows how to use a mig until it's limits. Also a lot of mirage pilots are getting killed because of not having any IFF, it's just damn dangerous to intercept and visually inspect a bogey before shooting it.

I just act like it's still a prototype and i am testing it. :P

[RogueRunner]

Module wise the Mig is light years ahead of the M2000, it's not even comparable, always were, even at launchtime and IMO always will be! Getting things 'done' in the Mig is just so more satisfactory than with any other module!

 

I would imagine performance wise the Mig would not do favorable against a M2000.