SA-10 and SA-15 improved launch realism

[Northstar98]

Just a suggestion for improving the realism cold, vertically launched SAM sites in DCS, I'm thinking specifically of the SA-10 and SA-15 systems.

I'll start with the SA-10: The SA-10 in real life uses gas (most likely compressed) to eject the missile out of its launch tube, once clear the missile's rocket motor ignites and simultaneously pitches over towards the target, once that has done it flies to the target like any other surface-to-air-missile:

 

In DCS, upon firing, the missile spawns in mid-air just above its launch tube with the rocket motor already ignited, the missile then vertically gains altitude before making a very sharp turn to point the missile at the target (the turn is much sharper and much later on than its real world counterpart).

 

For the SA-15 it's slightly different, again the missile is ejected out of it's tube with some sort of compressed gas, then very small rocket motors positioned around the missile's circumference, close to the nose quickly ignite in order to point the missile at the target, then the rocket motor ignites - all of this happens in very quick succession.

 

In DCS the missile's rocket motor ignites in it's tube, climbs vertically (gaining far more altitude than it does in real life) before pitching over and then it's just the same as any other missile.

Would it be possible in the future to implement realistic cold launching so that these systems in DCS more closely resemble their real life counterparts? (Oh btw I absolutely love the new graphics engine in DCS 1.5 :thumbup:)

Edited April 9, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting, corrected video links

[Flycat]

The rocket engine doesn't work until the missile jump out of the tube by the gas generator, then use the attitude control engine to turn to the target direction. After that, the mine rocket engine will work and go on. It's called cold launch, the other type is hot launch, the missile use its own exhaust to leave the tube. Soviet VLMS likes to use cold launch, and nato (mostly is USA) VLMS likes to use hot launch, It's not correct for our SA-15, the fire will break the top armor, LOL

Good point you have fond, dude.

:P

[Northstar98]

The rocket engine doesn't work until the missile jump out of the tube by the gas generator, then use the attitude control engine to turn to the target direction. After that, the mine rocket engine will work and go on. It's called cold launch, the other type is hot launch, the missile use its own exhaust to leave the tube. Soviet VLMS likes to use cold launch, and nato (mostly is USA) VLMS likes to use hot launch, It's not correct for our SA-15, the fire will break the top armor, LOL

Good point you have fond, dude.

:P

 

Thankyou :) I just thought it would be more realistic, but yes Russians systems prefer cold launch mainly due to safety, but yes also to stop scorching. And also think of how cool it would be to have cold launched missiles with the whole attitude control thruster things!

[red_coreSix]

When we're on it I would also love to see some improvements on the tracking/engagement logic done. Because as it is right now the SA-10 and Patriot will always use STT mode for tracking which in real life is only used for terminal guidance. Since both SA-10 and Patriot guide through TVM the target does not need to be illuminated in STT throughout the entire engagement.

Depending on the maneuvers the target is doing you would ping it maybe ever second or so. Many RWRs wouldn't even notice that a missile is on its way and would just give off a scan warning. Only in terminal guidance STT would be used since accurate range and speed measurements are needed for a direct hit or close pass.

 

Implementing this into DCS would make such SAM systems much more capable and overall realistic with DCS being a Simulator.

[Looney]

Not only that, but the currect radar guided systems in DCS require you to have a eyes on the target before firing. This also isn't correct, especially the SA-15 should be able to target, launch and track targets and missiles from the comforts of a radar screen.

[maturin]

Honestly, there's no point modelling the initial launch sequence of the S-300 down to fine details when the 3D model of the system itself has like 10 polys and flat color textures.

[Northstar98]

Honestly, there's no point modelling the initial launch sequence of the S-300 down to fine details when the 3D model of the system itself has like 10 polys and flat color textures.

 

Well, true that, I think I agree that the priority should be getting DCS 1.5/2.0 to look fantastic - mainly by updating old models and textures - but maybe after any remodeling then maybe the improved launch for the S-300 (I only suggested for realism overkill :))

 

But for the SA-15 maybe it is something to consider - I'm no way trying to say that ED should get to work on this right away - I'd rather them get the priorities out of the way first (stability issues, bugs etc) before adding a feature such as this. Although I still think that adding this feature would be a great idea - but sure I agree with you that the old models need updating before this should be properly considered.

[pepin1234]

I support your idea.

[Northstar98]

I support your idea.

 

Thanks :thumbup:

[vali_grad]

you're talking about revising the hole concept, a lot of reprogramming ... better wait for the most important stuff to release first.

this could be revised with the hole combined arms module after dcs 2.0, nevada, beta ending for current modules, other aircraft promisses, new stuff added from dcs team . pacience is a ..something with "tue" :P . 2016 will be a blast for simmers and space explorers, thats a fact !

[Alfa]

 

I'll start with the SA-10: The SA-10 in real life uses gas (most likely compressed) to eject the missile out of its launch tube, once clear the missile's rocket motor ignites and simultaneously pitches over towards the target, once that has done it flies to the target like any other surface-to-air-missile.

 

IIRC it doesn't use compressed gas directly, but rather a catapult system driven by compressed gas to haul the missile out of the launch tube.

 

But anyway, I agree with your suggestion :)

[BlazexX23Xx]

I love the S-300 and that's exactly what i wanted in DCS for a long time.

Edited November 25, 2015 by BlazexX23Xx

[BlazexX23Xx]

Honestly, there's no point modelling the initial launch sequence of the S-300 down to fine details when the 3D model of the system itself has like 10 polys and flat color textures.

 

 

[Northstar98]

 

 

Blimey those models look good, Nice find sir! :D But are they for DCS I wonder?

 

Also I think with new launchers, we would also need new RADARs and so forth.

 

It would also be great to see some reworked missile models - the current ones are seriously showing their age

Edited January 31, 2016 by Northstar98

[BlazexX23Xx]

Blimey those models look good, Nice find sir! :D But are they for DCS I wonder?

 

Also I think with new launchers, we would also need new RADARs and so forth.

 

It would also be great to see some reworked missile models - the current ones are seriously showing there age

 

These models are for DCS to replace the old ones.Probably the S-300 new 3d model will come in the next updates like the HAWK came recently.

Edited November 28, 2015 by BlazexX23Xx

[Silver_Dragon]

Part of hawk new 3D models has actually into DCS:W 1.5, updated the old models, meanwhile, the rest of vehicles has into the file structure and Wags put pics about them on the Week newsletter. The S-300 integration has unkonow, with others 3D models on production.

 

Check here

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=104115

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=116893

[BlazexX23Xx]

Part of hawk new 3D models has actually into DCS:W 1.5, updated the old models, meanwhile, the rest of vehicles has into the file structure and Wags put pics about them on the Week newsletter. The S-300 integration has unkonow, with others 3D models on production.

 

Check here

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=104115

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=116893

 

Ughh, i cant wait for the new S-300 3d models to be released someday.

[Northstar98]

Ughh, i cant wait for the new S-300 3d models to be released someday.

 

Same - hopefully it will include all the RADARs too