Aim120c [1.5.1]

[pr1malr8ge]

Ok, I've had three people tell me they were hit by my aim120s and never got a missile lock warning.. [obviously cannot tell before 1.5.1 since kills were not recorded].

 

Currently un-installing 1.5.1 and will reinstall to see if the issue is corrected.

 

Anyone else been getting excuse my language Bitched at about this???

 

While I think it's awesome Silent Killer I suppose but in all fairness it's not what I want in terms of kills..

[SinusoidDelta]

Hmm. I've had the opposite problem recently. I'll get an impossible number of launch warnings well outside of flood mode range.

[winchesterdelta1]

I had the same Pr1malr8ge. But i think it's not bug or corrupted game files. I think it's the way we fight and approach our targets.

I have been flying SU-27's and F-15's these day's and always got a missile warning. Unless i was banked to the left when he was coming from my right and visa versa.

[winchesterdelta1]

And the impossible number of launch warnings is the missile hitting different RWR sensors and/or the AIM-120 re-acquiring while the other warning is still in RWR memory, when maneuvering. First day's of 1.5 i was under the impression i was being fired at by 4 missiles.

 

(Sorry for my lack of professional terms for this explanation).

[Capn kamikaze]

Another thing to consider is does the AIM-120 emit anything if it is in HOJ mode, I would assume it goes passive so it can listen for the jammer once it switches to that mode, and if the jammer is turned off it would then go active.

 

If not, then it could be a bug, but no doubt some will complain if it is not a bug...

[Redacuragsr]

I had this happen twice to me since the last update. Was just flying around and exploded with no warning, I though I got hit by an ET or an aim-9, but when I checked the messages it said killed by an aim-120. Don't remember if I was in a bank or anything, but definitely were not using a Jammer.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Redacuragsr

[Beamscanner]

I had the same Pr1malr8ge. But i think it's not bug or corrupted game files. I think it's the way we fight and approach our targets.

 

This thought process around here needs to stop. Yes, in a grossly simplistic world the field of view of your RWR antennas is perfect, no energy is reflected off terrain, and no RF energy seeps through your airframe(and into your antenna from behind)

 

But that's not at all how the real world works.

 

In reality, directional antennas are never truly 100% directional, they just have more gain in one direction than another. That being said, a relatively powerful radar, and/or very close radar(i.e. an AIM-120 seeker), will still induce energy into your receiver even if you have maneuvered, albeit at a quieter level. It could be from your RWR antenna side lobes, terrain reflections, or even energy that passed through and bounced around your airframe. It's likely all of the above to a certain degree.

 

TL/DR: If the radar is close and/or powerful, it will still likely show up on your RWR if you have maneuvered and place the emission outside of your RWRs "field of view". Which on the basis of Antenna theory can never be perfect.

[domini99]

I got over 20 missile launch warnings in my A-10 while an SA-11 shot only 2 missiles at me...

Not sure what went wrong there, but it was confusing.

[Exorcet]

This thought process around here needs to stop. Yes, in a grossly simplistic world the field of view of your RWR antennas is perfect, no energy is reflected off terrain, and no RF energy seeps through your airframe(and into your antenna from behind)

These sound like things that would be filtered out at the very least to prevent the RWR from being overwhelmed by useless noise.

[Beamscanner]

These sound like things that would be filtered out at the very least to prevent the RWR from being overwhelmed by useless noise.

 

Variable, or automatic, gain controls are used in the amplifiers to limit spectrum clutter and noise from being processed. yes.

 

But a high power radar that's close in, being received under these conditions, isn't going to match the background noise floor...

 

In nearly all cases it would be immensely more powerful.

[pr1malr8ge]

Another thing to consider is does the AIM-120 emit anything if it is in HOJ mode, I would assume it goes passive so it can listen for the jammer once it switches to that mode, and if the jammer is turned off it would then go active.

 

If not, then it could be a bug, but no doubt some will complain if it is not a bug...

 

No launch in HOJ mode. Everything I shot was against a non jamming targets.

[Teknetinium]

Holimoli in 51st have experienced same problem several times on 104th MP server!!!

[Nerd1000]

The 120 also seems to induce a bug with the MiG-21 RWR- Incoming slammers will cause a lock warning, but after the missile has been defeated the lock warning tone persists indefinitely (The lights on the RWR on the other hand behave normally).

 

I can only conclude that the 120 is rather buggy at the moment.

[Capn kamikaze]

No launch in HOJ mode. Everything I shot was against a non jamming targets.

 

You may not have launched in HOJ mode, but could they have turned on ECM after you launched?

 

Also did they get no warning, or only the AIM-120 going active?

 

If you stayed in TWS, the first they should know about it is when the missile switches to active mode, TWS should not generate a launch warning.

[pr1malr8ge]

they got my radar sweep. No warning from missile going active.

[Capn kamikaze]

Looks like a bug/blindspot on their RWRs then.

[Sweep]

One thing to remember here is that there isn't much of an age-out time for the Slammers anymore.

 

If the 120 loses lock the M and launch warning are gone near instantly, instead of the normal 7 second drop time.

[SDsc0rch]

defecting pilots have reported our fighters' radars completely "engulf" and overwhelm their RWR systems - such that the system cannot get a discreet direction - it shows "all" directions

 

'murica!

 

8)

[Sweep]

defecting pilots have reported our fighters' radars completely "engulf" and overwhelm their RWR systems - such that the system cannot get a discreet direction - it shows "all" directions

 

'murica!

 

8)

 

That tends to happen when your RWR is an SPO-10...

[winchesterdelta1]

This thought process around here needs to stop. Yes, in a grossly simplistic world the field of view of your RWR antennas is perfect, no energy is reflected off terrain, and no RF energy seeps through your airframe(and into your antenna from behind)

 

But that's not at all how the real world works.

 

In reality, directional antennas are never truly 100% directional, they just have more gain in one direction than another. That being said, a relatively powerful radar, and/or very close radar(i.e. an AIM-120 seeker), will still induce energy into your receiver even if you have maneuvered, albeit at a quieter level. It could be from your RWR antenna side lobes, terrain reflections, or even energy that passed through and bounced around your airframe. It's likely all of the above to a certain degree.

 

TL/DR: If the radar is close and/or powerful, it will still likely show up on your RWR if you have maneuvered and place the emission outside of your RWRs "field of view". Which on the basis of Antenna theory can never be perfect.

 

OK i don't understand. What thought process has to stop? If that is not what happens in game please tell me. And tell me how we can explain this behavior. I did not had any thought process on this.

[PiedDroit]

OK i don't understand. What thought process has to stop? If that is not what happens in game please tell me. And tell me how we can explain this behavior. I did not had any thought process on this.

If I understand correctly, he means that what is reported as bug might be closer to reality and people should not assume RWR is a "perfect" direction indicator.

In real life a sensor array antenna is not perfect and won't work if saturation occurs (i.e. if the energy it receives is very strong).

Edited November 12, 2015 by PiedDroit

[Beamscanner]

The thought process that the "blind" spots of the RWR completely mask the emission when you are maneuvering.

 

IRL you would very likely still see the powerful emission of a illuminator or active seeker thats focused its beam on you and is relatively close. regardless if its in your RWR "blind" spot. As I stated in my last post, antennas are not perfect. (i.e. the "blind spots" are not perfectly blind, and thus extreme power would likely penetrate the air frame, or be strong enough to be picked up in the antenna side lobes.

[Teknetinium]

If I understand correctly, he means that what is reported as bug might be closer to reality and people should not assume RWR is a "perfect" direction indicator.

In real life a sensor array antenna is not perfect and won't work if saturation occurs (i.e. if the energy it receives is very strong).

 

They are defiantly not perfect, Would F-15 RWR face same problems? I believe it is a bug since Mig-21 RWR/ Ka-50 Laser warning system are broken at the moment from what I read on forums. Any testers that know if it is intentional or a bug? I have been saying before that by making RWR not as reliable would make Air2Air combat more realistic, But I would like it to be realistic not only for Su-27S:)

Edited November 12, 2015 by Teknetinium

[pr1malr8ge]

They are defiantly not perfect, Would F-15 RWR face same problems? I believe it is a bug since Mig-21 RWR/ Ka-50 Laser warning system are broken at the moment from what I read on forums. Any testers that know if it is intentional or a bug? I have been saying before that by making RWR not as reliable would make Air2Air combat more realistic, But I would like it to be realistic not only for Su-27S:)

 

Not sure whats wrong with the game's version.. How ever I know that "borrowed" mig21s being tested in the 80s against f15s had some unexpected results. In that the radar from the f15 would virtually over saturate each Sensor of the mig21's Rwr that it could not detect where the source was coming from and would show every direction. According to my cousin that when he was intercepting defecting Mig21s from North Korea that just hitting them with the radar they would about face and run back immediately and this was ~35-40nm.

[Teknetinium]

Not sure whats wrong with the game's version.. How ever I know that "borrowed" mig21s being tested in the 80s against f15s had some unexpected results. In that the radar from the f15 would virtually over saturate each Sensor of the mig21's Rwr that it could not detect where the source was coming from and would show every direction. According to my cousin that when he was intercepting defecting Mig21s from North Korea that just hitting them with the radar they would about face and run back immediately and this was ~35-40nm.

 

When MIG-21 get locked in DCS you dont see where you are locked from, Im sure thats is not a bug rather then simulating what you are describing about defecting MIG-21s. But when MIG-21 defeat the Aim-120, the RWR keeps screaming compare to older patches. I assume something is here that was not intended by ED.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Teknetinium