Simulating G-forces?

[Deano87]

Hey all...

 

Sorry for the long post, I know this is a bonkers idea but I'd be interested to hear what you people would think.

 

I don't really have a home cockpit as such but I have a Playseat Air-Force with a TM Warthog mounted to it. The reason why I don't have a home cockpit is because I mainly play with the Oculus Rift DK2 so building a whole instrument panel would be somewhat pointless. I find the Oculus to be incredibly immersive and ever since I got it I've been adding to my cockpit to add to the immersion. My last purchase was a Buttkicker which has certainly added another dimension to the immersion level of my setup. But whats next?

 

I've been lucky enough to fly aerobatics in real aircraft and have a bit of jet experience and the one thing that pretty much defined both experiences for me was the feeling of pulling Gs. Now I realised we can't simulate G forces in any meaningful way, unless you happen to have a spare centrifuge in your garage :thumbup:. But to simulate G-force in 'some' way would be cool. I'm not interested in motion rigs as these just tend to pitch,roll and yaw to simulate rotation and lateral acceleration, but none of them do anything to simulate the one force that most combat pilots have to deal with; Vertical G-force.

 

I have an idea

 

Dynamically tightening harness.

 

My idea for this is that you would have a 4 point harness on your seat, the ends of the harness would be attached to winding motors on the back of the seat. As you pulled G the harness would tighten, pulling you down into the seat. Now I realise that tight straps is the opposite of what you would experience when pulling positive G IRL, with it more being something you would experience with negative G. But I'm concentrating more on the sensation of load on the upper body from the shoulder straps. Loading up your spine, pulling your shoulders back into the seat (as happens with reclined fighter seats) etc etc. I'm not suggesting we use hugely powerful motors, nobody wants to be crushed by their gaming chair :smilewink: but something you would notice and could allow you to 'feel' how much G you are pulling rather that having to check your G-gauge.

 

I toyed with the idea of doing an upper-body G-suit kind of thing which would inflate to add pressure to the upper body, but this seemed to lack the whole aspect of actually pushing the body into the seat, maybe a combination of both would be best?

[GeorgeLKMT]

What about this: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=122577

 

His old website is down (try internet archive), the new one's here: http://bergison.simpit.info/

 

[Deano87]

Oh wow thats pretty much exactly what I was thinking!

 

Thanks!

[Sweep]

Amazing!

[Deano87]

The G-seat is pretty cool!

 

But I think it is a bit more complex than I want to go currently, I like the seat belt mechanism he uses but he uses it in the opposite sense than I want to use. Very impressive though!

 

Food for thought, for sure.

[LynxDK]

That seat is awesome, i might just implement that im ny AcesII Design.

[LynxDK]

Im not sure DCS Bios is supporting those movements tho.

[Cripple]

Interesting post. I've been thinking along parallel lines myself (along with airspeed based control tensioning), but it's very much a secondary or even tertiary stage for after the 'pit is flyable.

 

Unfortunately I've lost the links (or maybe they were on my 'phone) but I remember reading a couple of articles that indicated:

a) g seat type cueing is more efficacious for immersion that motion platform systems - assuming each is used alone.

b) air bladder g seats were not well regarded by the testing pilots as they seemed to "squirm" under one as one's weight shifted.

 

If you google "nasa g seat" you can find a few more articles - none that seem to implement your idea though. Commercial seats seem to use a combo of both, rather like the linked DIY version.

 

At the moment, from my own (probably flawed) reading of the research, a three-fold system would probably be best: two inflatable bladder on the seat back for simulating +/- thrust, mechanical two "flaps" on the seat base for simulating roll/heave, and tightening straps (at least shoulder) for simulating negative g. The devil, of course, is in the details....

 

The burning question is: can we even extract the necessary info out from DCS?

[weeb]

Lynx, I may be going out on a limb here but....... why would DCS-bios be needed. I think it could do it but your howking a lot of servo motors there, I don't think it is designed for that. In a situation like this would surrond motion not be directly proportional to stick movement? Maybe a solution to fit 4 ir's below the hotas so the don't interfere with track-ir. thinking out of the box here.

 

weeb

[LynxDK]

I think that if they react on the joystick movement you wont have the right output... , i noticed when he was rolling on the runway, it was jumping and moving like it was the whole plane vibrating, exactly like a But Kicker does, which i think is very affective.

 

I dont know if its possible to get those info out of the game, but i hope so.... it should reed the data for positive and negative G. and the pilots head react on the planes movement... thats what you need for se 4 pads and the seatbelt.... However, i have no idea about the jumping and vibration on the runway.

[Warhog]

or its tied to the ADI which basically defines where you are.

[LynxDK]

Yea.. your right, the ADI would do the job.... but what about the rumbling on the airfield?

[Warhog]

I use the Butt-kicker as well. The seat rumbles as you accelerate down the runway without needing to do anything. And then when your wheels leave the ground...WOW. You know your in the air.:thumbup:

 

I love it. I just wish it would handle some other things like the wheels up lock. THUMP! Or when you jettison the canopy or..the list goes on. Even if it doesn't handle everything it is an excellent device and I would not be without.:)

 

John

[rrohde]

Stunning project!

I wish there were more "mainstream" (i.e., off-the-shelf, less expensive) ways to immerse ourselves in DCS, though. :)

[Deano87]

I don't know how bergison is getting the data out of DCS but he might be using a program like SimTools which is commonly used for motion controlled rigs.

 

http://www.xsimulator.net/simtools-motion-simulator-software/

 

I will contact him and ask however.

[Cripple]

I use the Butt-kicker as well. The seat rumbles as you accelerate down the runway without needing to do anything. And then when your wheels leave the ground...WOW. You know your in the air.:thumbup:

 

I love it. I just wish it would handle some other things like the wheels up lock. THUMP! Or when you jettison the canopy or..the list goes on. Even if it doesn't handle everything it is an excellent device and I would not be without.:)

 

John

 

Cheers for the mini-review, John. I'll admit that I've been in two minds about the 'kicker - gimmick, or effective. You've swung me across to the latter camp now.

 

Hmmmm. As it works off the bass from the audio, shouldn't some bright spark be able to mod the audio cues for the wheels-up/canopy/etc so that the trigger the 'kicker too? Basically add a "spike" of bass?

[LynxDK]

You can also adjust the butt kicker to reach from High tones.

 

But im not sure i can find the Link, i will try to look for it, because there was a guy, which made a buttkicker, but is worked from software, not sound... and he could adjust how it should react to what task. The kicker itself was a motor attached to a wooden plate... Ill post the link if i find it.

 

Alternatively i have seen some solutions for exactly what you mention, the Wheel Up Thump... by using a buttkicker and a second Sound Card... and then a piece of software that send those sounds to the device.... ill try to look for that link too :P

[agrasyuk]

I don't know how bergison is getting the data out of DCS but he might be using a program like SimTools which is commonly used for motion controlled rigs.

 

http://www.xsimulator.net/simtools-motion-simulator-software/

 

I will contact him and ask however.

 

from what i understand he is using x-sim suite (http://www.x-sim.de/forum/portal.php) .

info is exported into x-sim DCS plugin via our all favorite export.lua script. incoming force info is recalculated into actuator movements. i am as well building and will get into the software side of things once i have something to test with.

[LynxDK]

Found the First Link:

 

[ame]

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And the second:

 

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[/ame] Edited November 17, 2015 by LynxDK

[LynxDK]

Imagine the feeling from a motor shaker setup like that when you fire the Cannon in the A-10 :P

[Cripple]

Cool.

 

Here's a good vid on how to DIY a tactile transducer (which is what the BK is). It's in Foreign, but very easy to follow regardless:

 

[ame]

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[Deano87]

Guys, While I appreciate the input, I already have a tactile transducer (Buttkicker), this thread is more about how to simulate G-forces, Something which tactile transducers don't do..

 

Just sayin'

[Cripple]

Guys, While I appreciate the input, I already have a tactile transducer (Buttkicker), this thread is more about how to simulate G-forces, Something which tactile transducers don't do..

 

Just sayin'

 

Apologies for going off topic... :doh:

[LynxDK]

Sorry bout that :)

[Warhog]

Cheers for the mini-review, John. I'll admit that I've been in two minds about the 'kicker - gimmick, or effective. You've swung me across to the latter camp now.

 

Hmmmm. As it works off the bass from the audio, shouldn't some bright spark be able to mod the audio cues for the wheels-up/canopy/etc so that the trigger the 'kicker too? Basically add a "spike" of bass?

 

Yes that would be fabulous. And as LynxDK mentioned, firing the cannon would be just awesome. Unfortunately it doesn't produce much of an effect. But having said that, the unit still makes for a super flight. I will tell you one thing, when I hit the ground in my A10C and it explode...I almost flew out of my chair:shocking:. Talk about emmersive.:lol:

 

I'm sure we will find someone who can make changes to the audio and really take advantage of this device.

 

And BTW, the OP is correct. We should stay on topic.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Warhog