Looking for new joystick

[Rabso]

Hi every one,

 

I am using Logitech force 3d pro joystick for around 5 years :D

 

I can say I love this joystick with its force feedback. However, it seems (after all these years with my heavy use) that the motors and the axis sensors became poor.

 

for example, I can't control my F-15 on study level to do Air-to-Air refueling as the motors will do some slightly movement :mad::joystick:

 

I started searching a lot for a good joystick and I found that X-55 is a good one. But after seeing a lot of bad feedbacks regarding the QC issue, I am kind of scare to buy this one especially it will be shipped to me in Middle East where I don't have chance to receive something not working well.

 

I want to know your opinion to what joystick I go.

[giei]

I have an X55 and the pots are crap.

A couple bnegin to have spikes after 3 weekes but this is the only hotas with a decent amount of buttons and a decent quality.

I can control the mig21 without mouse and keyboard using the 3 modes and the slider modifier.

 

An x55 with warthog quality will be perfect.

[Grundar]

I really like my X55 haven't had a problem with it so far, though there are a lot of various reports out there regarding various issues - that said you can also find issues for any joystick you care to google for.

 

I would of loved to grab a Warthog, but can't justify the expense and the fact that with no twist stick - it means forking out for pedals as well. I have no problem with buying separate pedals as they are much more superior to a twist stick but with the Warthog you don't even have that option were as on the X55 you get a twist stick. So it's potentially another added expense.

 

The X55 stick itself is very large so if you have moderate to small size hands or stubby fingers you will find it a somewhat uncomfortable to use to reach all the hats. The software for it does have many issues, I just program the stick including mode switches through DCS it self - but not using the software rules out the mouse nipple on the throttle.

 

The X55 has various springs you can insert for various stiffness as to your liking, soft springs great for helos, stiffer great for jets etc.. The throttle also can be used as a right or left or with the throttle lock engaged as one throttle (though I assign mine individually to the engine and use the lock to move them evenly; unless of course of an engine fire than I can separate them and shut down an engine etc..)

There is also a dial to alter the stiffness of the throttle, again you can change to what feels comfortable for you - you won't be ramming these throttles full forward in the blink of an eye.

 

The joystick and throttles don't have particularly heavy bases so if you are using to really heaving on things you might find the pieces sliding around - they do come with pre-drilled bolt holes though if you wish to secure them.

 

At the price range and what was on offer - the X55 hit the right spot for me, I consider it to have been a good investment for my money/time.

[Rabso]

I really like my X55 haven't had a problem with it so far, though there are a lot of various reports out there regarding various issues - that said you can also find issues for any joystick you care to google for.

 

I would of loved to grab a Warthog, but can't justify the expense and the fact that with no twist stick - it means forking out for pedals as well. I have no problem with buying separate pedals as they are much more superior to a twist stick but with the Warthog you don't even have that option were as on the X55 you get a twist stick. So it's potentially another added expense.

 

The X55 stick itself is very large so if you have moderate to small size hands or stubby fingers you will find it a somewhat uncomfortable to use to reach all the hats. The software for it does have many issues, I just program the stick including mode switches through DCS it self - but not using the software rules out the mouse nipple on the throttle.

 

The X55 has various springs you can insert for various stiffness as to your liking, soft springs great for helos, stiffer great for jets etc.. The throttle also can be used as a right or left or with the throttle lock engaged as one throttle (though I assign mine individually to the engine and use the lock to move them evenly; unless of course of an engine fire than I can separate them and shut down an engine etc..)

There is also a dial to alter the stiffness of the throttle, again you can change to what feels comfortable for you - you won't be ramming these throttles full forward in the blink of an eye.

 

The joystick and throttles don't have particularly heavy bases so if you are using to really heaving on things you might find the pieces sliding around - they do come with pre-drilled bolt holes though if you wish to secure them.

 

At the price range and what was on offer - the X55 hit the right spot for me, I consider it to have been a good investment for my money/time.

 

thanks a lot for your details,

 

currently am between the X-55 or Warthog. I know Warthog doesn't have the twist stick but I believe I can figure out a way to overcome this.

 

Is just Warthog better than X-55 in term of quality, am I right?

[jcbak]

I have the Warthog and have no complaints (the A10C is my favorite module....a masterpiece). Like any other device, its not perfect. (I found by adding a 7.5 cm extension and using Silicon spray lube on the 4 internal posts/springs fits the bill for me). The trouble with any mechanical device is that it's prone to failure and some reviews express the natural frustration that comes with that. The Warthog is expensive. I justified the purchase by realizing that if I didn't get exactly what I want, I would probably waste money experimenting with other sticks only to eventually get the WH. Quality-wise, the WH joystick will be hard to beat. The throttle control is nice but not the same quality as the stick. You could always pick up a set of pedals off of eBay.

[=DECOY=]

I have the X55, and to date I have been really happy with it.

 

I have had it for 8 months and no problems at all

[leadlag]

Another vote for the Warthog.

 

All the button locations are well thought through so no real stretching to get to anything important without taking your hands off which is the whole point of Hotas. It is a copy of the A10 stick which had alot of $ spent on its development so you're buying a well designed product.

 

It is the expensive but if you look around you can find agood deal.

[cichlidfan]

If your budget will all for a Warthog, it is worth the extra expense. Is it perfect, no, but it is the best thing out there at the moment, unless you are willing to spend even more.

[Rabso]

I can see that TM Warthog is more recommended, I am turning to this one I think.

 

but I have question to who own TM, do we have any resistant feeling on the stick? back to Logitech force 3d pro the stick will have force feeling so the stick will not go easy to any direction which give you accurate handling

Edited November 24, 2015 by Rabso

[King_Hrothgar]

I have had an X-55 since January, no complaints. I had an X-52 Pro for about 8 years prior and upgraded to X-55 since I wanted more buttons. There was nothing wrong with the old HOTAS functionally.

 

In regards to quality, one would hope a $400 HOTAS is better built than a $200 one. But as said, I haven't had any issues with Saitek.

[Endy]

I can see that TM Warthog is mot recommended, I am turning to this one I think.

 

but I have question to who own TM, do we have any resistant feeling on the stick? back to Logitech force 3d pro the stick will have force feeling so the stick will not go easy to any direction which give you accurate handling

 

The stock spring is pretty resistant so it's not that easy to move the stick around. Which can be nice or a chore sometimes depending what you fly. For example for lots of dgfighting, this can be tiresome after some time as the resistance is really significant.

 

Also, many people buy an extension to the stick (i have a 7,5cm one), for the above reason (an extension lowers stick resistance quite a bit depending on length) and also because it lets you use the stick's precision to the fullest. This is really handy for prop planes and choppers where that extra precision is really nice to have.

 

EDIT: That feeling when you unpack the Warthog for the first time and feel the all metal construction will make you never want to go back to anything plastic :)

 

EDIT2: besides the materials used, I think the biggest problem with x55 is ergonomy, and at times it's worse than in their previous model x52, because for some reason the designers went on and tried to reinvent the wheel instead of relying on tried solutions for button placement etc, for example by copying from military stick. But they felt a need to be original... This is worth watching to see what I mean and see all the problems with x55 in comparison to WH : [ame]

[/ame] Edited November 24, 2015 by Endy

[Malleebull]

I've had the x55 for over 3 months now and it is doing me perfectly. The software is mmm alright i guess and has allowed me to put in a constant deadzone for the "wobble" that the stick has. This wobble however is only slight and has little to no affect on how you will play.

 

The action of the stick is very weird compared to many other joysticks as it is all external. It also relies on parts that can more easily fail in engineering terms thant the TM Warthog. Sometimes when trying to make subtle movements the stick tends to get 'stuck' and if pressure isn't properly used the stick can sometimes be forced to the edge of its movement.

 

Quality control was no problem for me and all buttons and parts work, some aren't optimised however as the software is a pain in the arse to use.

 

A Highly recommended stick for merely amount of buttons and HOTAs requirements.

[Rabso]

This is worth watching to see what I mean and see all the problems with x55 in comparison to WH :

 

This is what I was looking for really, thanks a lot Endy. Now I have decided fully to go for TM Warthog .

 

There is an old saying, "Buy the best and only cry once" :thumbup:

 

 

EDIT: That feeling when you unpack the Warthog for the first time and feel the all metal construction will make you never want to go back to anything plastic :)

OH man can't wait to get my hand on it. :joystick:

Edited November 24, 2015 by Rabso

[King_Hrothgar]

Ralfi is a hardcore TM WH fanboy, nothing he says about any joystick can be considered objective. With that said, the X-55 is half the price of the WH and as such, is more cheaply made. It is still a $200 HOTAS though, it's very much on the high end. Another good option in that price range is the CH Fighterstick + CH throttle. Their quality is beyond question even if they look like something you'd give a 3 year old. I have their pedals and have had one of their yokes in the past, they are indestructible.

 

In any case, here's a more professional review for you by someone who reviews basically everything in regards to flight simming.

QIM_kt_18yI

[Endy]

He is a WH fanboy, true. I guess anyone who owns one is bound to be really and anything else will feel cheap and crappy in comparison so I kinda understand him. But notice how he also compares some features with an x52 and that's also important.

 

And sure, you will find positive reviews of x55, especially if someone doesn't own or doesn't compare it to the Warthog or perhaps just wants something new and is not overly picky about ergonomy. That's the thing, x55 is probably next best to the WH right now but still that's a giant leap in quality between them. But if someone has a bigger budget and is considering these two models, then it's fair to show what exactly you're getting for the additional money you need to part with and how both fare in comparison.

 

Ralfi's points about ergonomy are pretty valid and it was not only him showing that. What he shows about idiotic button placement is true to reality. And that doesn't have anything to do with the price but with the fact, that WH is a replica of a real military stick where all the buttonts etc are placed in a reasonable way based on military specifications and experiences. On the other hand , Saitek decided to "innovate" and made a few quite bad decisions about the stick design. Here's another review, a profesional one as well although in polish unfortunately, but some of the pictures are dynamic and show you the ergonomy problems with the design: http://yoyosims.pl/hotas-saitek-x55-rhino

 

Of course, we can ignore the fact that x55 is plastic and it's totally different feeling that the metal of WH because it's a bit cheaper (around half the price, a bit more maybe) but still. There can be no excuse for the bad ergonomy especially if you're gonna spend a lot of time playing. I can see someone being perfectly happy about x55 because he can't compare it to the WH or does not mind the few quirks that the stick has. I guess it's still an upgrade and looks way more fun than x52 for example.

 

As for quality, all sticks have issues (WH can be in need of regreasing after some time for example), but with x55 I know two people for whom the x55 died after 15 and 18 months of heavy use respectively. Perhaps it's just bad luck, but I'm also very negative about anything Saitek/Mad Catz now, also after my own experiences. My mouse - Mad Catz R.A.T. 5 died 3 times ! over the period of 2 year warranty...

 

My previous stick, x52 worked fine but very quickly had issues with the rotarys on the throttle and the slider as well. The potentiometers started breaking and there was constant jumping of the input which was driving me mad. The stick itself worked fine although the plastics quality and the overall squeekiness was also not fun.

 

Anyway, it all depends how much money you're willing to spend on the stick at one time. I've learned my lesson and prefer to pay more once for the best one than keep paying half that every few years just because i'm fed up with the lesser quality stick or need to replace it. So Warthog's price can be seen as justified actually, as you're getting something for years.

 

Saitek used to make one stick that was way better than x55 and that was x65F (it was all metal too) but i think it's not in production anymore for some reason, perhaps because force sensing wasn't very popular and Saitek is aiming for the cheaper market anyway, at least now. That would've been a reasonable alternative for WH, but I would not recommend the x55, at least not if you've the money to make the jump to the Warthog.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Endy

[Rabso]

thanks for all, finally I had purchased the TM Worthog HOTAS. Is just will take weeks to arrive my country :(

 

I can't wait to get my and on it.

 

Hint: I purchased it from computeruniverse.net which I found it really cheaper than TM website.

[dburne]

thanks for all, finally I had purchased the TM Worthog HOTAS.

 

:thumbup:

 

Congrats, you will love it I am sure.

[Rabso]

I am writing this and the TM Worthog HOTAS is next to me :megalol::megalol::megalol:

 

I never expected them to be like this, the size is big! everything look real, there is no more plastic :megalol:

 

So I pulled two boxes from the big box, I opened them carefully (Yes man they are not cheap :D), I hold the stick then :pilotfly::pilotfly::pilotfly::pilotfly::pilotfly:

you will feel all the buttons are real and will not break.

 

 

The throttle too is amazing, the LED light just wow. one of best thing in it is how the idel and off location simulated! you need to pull them up so you can go to the off position.

 

I am going to say it, this is best ever joystick you can put your hand on it.

 

 

thanks for everyone who helped me in this, now I belive I will :joystick::joystick::joystick::joystick::joystick::joystick:

Edited December 10, 2015 by Rabso

[dburne]

I am going to say it, this is best ever joystick you can put your hand on it.

thanks for everyone who helped me in this, now I belive I will :joystick::joystick:

 

Congratulations on receiving it and getting to feel that beauty in your hands, you made a great choice!

 

Have fun!

[cichlidfan]

I still fondly remember unboxing my Warthog! :thumbup:

[Rabso]

thanks guys, by the way can you prefer the best profile for the F-15C so I can start with. Until now I am struggling to sit the controls :)