BVR faulty?

[majapahit]

with experienced Su-27 flyers here and me being new to Su-27 (was flying F-15C)

 

question is

though some other thread stated 'present long range missiles are terribly bugged', I hear nothing of that here

 

 

when I fly mission 'Intercept' modded to start at runway,

the overflight (two bombers, two escorts) is about 14 miles south

 

up in the air and turning in I approach them rapidly, but

 

there is NO BVR lock possible with any of Su-27 long range ordinance

there nothing on the HUD

 

until less then 10mi, and more like less than 8mi, the scans appear on the HUD and I can lock,

but with 1150km/hr I am about on top of them already

 

I also noticed that bogey 'out of bounds' is 'confirmed' by the radar 'cone' on the HDD

HDD shows aircraft as per AWACS painted, but outside the radar cone

 

when I scale the cone with

"RCtrl - -" Radar Scan Zone Decrease Sensors

"RCtrl - =" Radar Scan Zone Increase Sensors

 

the numbers at bottom of HUD (cone distance scan) will do proper increase but

a. no changed cone size in HDD

b. aircraft painted in HDD stay out of 'reach' cone

c. nu HUD painting

d. no locking of cycled 77 or 27 / R or T any ordinance weapon

 

am I missing something?

 

(updated xxx.107)

[[Knight]]

Press 2 for bvr mode if nothing pops up untill 10 miles then you may be in bore site and if you have 2 vertical lines on your hud then your in vertical scan. Make sure your radar is on and your not using EO sensors.

 

Oh and I do belive the version of the 27 that is modeled in the game never carried R-77s except for testing. :D

[majapahit]

;2567790']Press 2 for bvr mode if nothing pops up untill 10 miles then you may be in bore site and if you have 2 vertical lines on your hud then your in vertical scan. Make sure your radar is on and your not using EO sensors.

 

Oh and I do belive the version of the 27 that is modeled in the game never carried R-77s except for testing. :D

 

I am for sure in BVR mode

perhaps was the 73 or something,

anyway,

am I the only one?

 

(like this 27 but BVR should work or its kind of stupid)

[Capn kamikaze]

Try cycling through your PRF settings, it has quite an impact on getting a lock at range.

[[Knight]]

your weapon selection has nothing to do with the range on the radar. the number on the right middle of the hud should be defaulted to 0, this is your antenna for your altitude so. what ever range your scanning at on your radar 0 means your scanning at your altitude of your own plane. so if the target is above you you wont see it, you have to move the antenna up to +1 +2 and so forth. Lets say you are scanning for 80k and your antenna is at +5 that means you are scanning 5k meters above you at 80k out. The number on the bottom middle of the hud is like you radar beam from left to right so the smaller the number the the narrower the scan, the higher you go the wider the scan. just like in the F15... sorta now remember the wider the slower your going to receive data and vice versa.

Edited November 25, 2015 by [Knight]

[holimoli]

 

the numbers at bottom of HUD (cone distance scan) will do proper increase but

a. no changed cone size in HDD

b. aircraft painted in HDD stay out of 'reach' cone

c. nu HUD painting

d. no locking of cycled 77 or 27 / R or T any ordinance weapon

 

am I missing something?

 

(updated xxx.107)

 

a. correct. The radar cone is fixed.

b. I think the intercept mission has an AWACS set. So you might see contacts received by the AWACS.

c. ? ? ? Are you manpulatiing the radar at all? Like in elevation and azmiuth?

d. ? ? ? No targets = no lock :P

[majapahit]

;2567810']your weapon selection has nothing to do with the range on the radar. the number on the right middle of the hud should be defaulted to 0' date=' this is your antenna for your altitude so. what ever range your scanning at on your radar 0 means your scanning at your altitude of your own plane. so if the target is above you you wont see it, you have to move the antenna up to +1 +2 and so forth. Lets say you are scanning for 80k and your antenna is at +5 that means you are scanning 5k meters above you at 80k out. The number on the bottom middle of the hud is like you radar beam from left to right so the smaller the number the the narrower the scan, the higher you go the wider the scan. just like in the F15... sorta now remember the wider the slower your going to receive data and vice versa.[/quote']

 

I'm referring to the number at bottom of HUD, defaults to 10,

 

(this should be the range setting for BVR // EDIT: no ts not)

 

but when I dial up, no targets on HUD

(and I can see their contrails or point where AWACS tells me to look)

 

But actually what you guys are saying

you DO get targets at > 20km or 50 or 80 (not Awacs)

 

?

 

sure number at bottom isnt Range BVR

then how do you set range BVR?

[ShuRugal]

I'm referring to the number at bottom of HUD, defaults to 10,

 

(this should be the range setting for BVR // EDIT: no ts not)

 

but when I dial up, no targets on HUD

(and I can see their contrails or point where AWACS tells me to look)

 

But actually what you guys are saying

you DO get targets at > 20km or 50 or 80 (not Awacs)

 

?

 

sure number at bottom isnt Range BVR

then how do you set range BVR?

 

 

This is an extremely common misconception. You do not "set" the range for BVR mode. The radar will display (on the HUD) all targets which it detects, regardless of the number at the bottom of the HUD. The number there is the expected range of the target, and is used in conjunction with the number on the right side of the HUD to set your vertical scan offset. Both numbers are in km, with the number to the right indicating expected altitude deviation from your own aircraft.

 

If you set this number on the right to +10, and leave the default setting of 10 on the bottom, then your radar will be looking at a spot 10km ahead and 10km above your aircraft (up at a 45-degree angle) If you set it to -5 and 10, then you will be looking down 5km at a range of 10km (-22.5 degrees).

 

One last point that is extremely useful to know: as you set the expected altitude, that number and the bar beside it will slide up and down the HUD. On that same scale, you will notice two short horizontal dashes, which move up and down as you change pitch. The two dashes show the up or down angle of the view through your HUD in relation to the horizon line, and the expected-altitude number shows the same reference. You can use this to manually aim the radar at something you see. Example: point HUD at contrail above you, then raise radar expected altitude setting until it lines up with the short dashes, and your target should appear.

[majapahit]

This is an extremely common misconception. You do not "set" the range for BVR mode. The radar will display (on the HUD) all targets which it detects, regardless of the number at the bottom of the HUD. The number there is the expected range of the target, and is used in conjunction with the number on the right side of the HUD to set your vertical scan offset. Both numbers are in km, with the number to the right indicating expected altitude deviation from your own aircraft.

 

If you set this number on the right to +10, and leave the default setting of 10 on the bottom, then your radar will be looking at a spot 10km ahead and 10km above your aircraft (up at a 45-degree angle) If you set it to -5 and 10, then you will be looking down 5km at a range of 10km (-22.5 degrees).

 

One last point that is extremely useful to know: as you set the expected altitude, that number and the bar beside it will slide up and down the HUD. On that same scale, you will notice two short horizontal dashes, which move up and down as you change pitch. The two dashes show the up or down angle of the view through your HUD in relation to the horizon line, and the expected-altitude number shows the same reference. You can use this to manually aim the radar at something you see. Example: point HUD at contrail above you, then raise radar expected altitude setting until it lines up with the short dashes, and your target should appear.

 

OK, thks will try that

to set up an easy demo for myself

 

If I set up a target at 35km @ 16000meter straigght at me

and I be flying level & straight at him @ 16000meter

 

then if I leave azimuth at 0 and I set bottom number at 35,

than he should show on the HUD?

 

I'm seeing this correct?

 

 

EDIT:

tested and indeed works,

dont know what I did wrong before but I can lock a plane now @ 35 mi

 

thx guys

Edited November 26, 2015 by majapahit

[ShuRugal]

then if I leave azimuth at 0 and I set bottom number at 35,

than he should show on the HUD?

 

Mostly.

 

The number on the bottom of the HUD has no bearing on whether or not you can see the target on radar. All it is used for is to tell you where you are currently aiming the dish. If you have a bomber at 100km, and the number is set to 35, the bomber will show up.

 

Now, on the Head-Down Display, the number there is important, because it will not show targets off the top-edge. However, the HUD displays all detected targets, with targets at long range being latched to the top.

[Sryan]

the number on the bottom of the HUD means nothing. if AWACS calls out a target to you 50km out, you can set this to 50 and when you detect the target it will be in the middle of the HUD. If you leave it at 10 but your radar detects a target 80km out, it will still be displayed, along the top of the HUD. not manipulating the numbers on the HUD does not mean you are being withheld from seeing targets you should actually detect.

 

You might need to do a bit more manipulation on the radar in the Su-27 than in the 15C. There's no 'wide' scan like in the 15. You'll need to slew the radar left center and right to stay aware of all thats in front of you. Also setting the right frequency just like in the F15. I recomend giving the training mission for sensors a go, that'll explain all modes and shows you targets you can detect one way but not the other. The training missions are under single missions.

[holimoli]

the number on the bottom of the HUD means nothing. if AWACS calls out a target to you 50km out, you can set this to 50 and when you detect the target it will be in the middle of the HUD. If you leave it at 10 but your radar detects a target 80km out, it will still be displayed, along the top of the HUD. not manipulating the numbers on the HUD does not mean you are being withheld from seeing targets you should actually detect.

 

Wrong. The expected target range does not affect how your targets get displayed on the HUD.

Again: The radar cone is fixed in width, height and range. All your expected target range does is changing the amount of how much your radar cone is raised or lowered per elevation change. Fore example a higher expected range value will give u less change of the radar cone per one elevation click. So the expected range stands in relation with the elevation setting of your radar.

To get back to the awacs calls. For example, if you get information about a bandit at 5000m and 30km away from and you are flying at 3000m then you can set your expected range to 30km and the elvation +2 and the antenna of your radar will be exactly pointed on the bandit. This does not mean that the bandit will be seen in the center of the HUD.. This dependes on your radar range settings displayed on the left of the HUD.

[majapahit]

This dependes on your radar range settings displayed on the left of the HUD.

so if

"=" Display Zoom In Sensors

"-" Display Zoom Out Sensors

only zooms HDD

 

and

"RCtrl - -" Radar Scan Zone Decrease Sensors

"RCtrl - =" Radar Scan Zone Increase Sensors

only adjusts relative tilt~azimuth

 

then your

'This depends on your radar range settings displayed on the left of the HUD'

 

this range on left HUD is automatically adjusted as soon as a or any target is detected or locked?

 

2 targets, range 10 en 80 km, will switch left HUD to 80 km?

 

(since there no keys for adjusting this? it appears)

[Ironhand]

then your

'This depends on your radar range settings displayed on the left of the HUD'

 

this range on left HUD is automatically adjusted as soon as a or any target is detected or locked?

 

2 targets, range 10 en 80 km, will switch left HUD to 80 km?

 

(since there no keys for adjusting this? it appears)

The range scale on the left side of the HUD is adjusted with the "-" and "=" keys. This does not adjust how far your radar can see. Your radar always sees as far as it can see. This merely adjusts how far ahead of your aircraft you want to see. If you have the range on the HUD's left set to 50 km and your radar gets a return from an object 75 km (for example) away, you'll see it displayed at the very top of the HUD. That's the system's way of telling you that there is a target but it's beyond the range you requested the system to display. To see how far away it actually is, increase the display range until it's pulled down into the HUD.

[holimoli]

so if

"=" Display Zoom In Sensors

"-" Display Zoom Out Sensors

only zooms HDD

 

and

"RCtrl - -" Radar Scan Zone Decrease Sensors

"RCtrl - =" Radar Scan Zone Increase Sensors

only adjusts relative tilt~azimuth

 

then your

'This depends on your radar range settings displayed on the left of the HUD'

 

this range on left HUD is automatically adjusted as soon as a or any target is detected or locked?

 

2 targets, range 10 en 80 km, will switch left HUD to 80 km?

 

(since there no keys for adjusting this? it appears)

 

 

"=","-" adjusts HDD zoom and your displayed range on the HUD (Bar on the left) simulationsly

"rCtrl + =" and "rCtrl + -" sets your expected target range.

 

You have to adjust the distance manually with "=" and "-". If you lock a bandit the range bar on the left will automatically adjust. Same as in the F15. Difference is that your radar cone is always the same in distance. You only adjust your systems how they display radar data and not the sensor itself. For example. If your range scale is set to 100 you will still see contacts further away at the top of the HUD.

[majapahit]

well I gave it another try, put three planes coming towards me at 40-60-80km

and tested the Su-27 BVR radar

 

After some fiddling it picks up one (1)

after that None (0)

when 2 planes past me I u-turned, never able to make them show on the radar

 

short range radar(s) work, but

I'd say the Su-27 BVR radar is a broken joke, it's Kaputt, with this u cannot engage a F-15C

u're going in blindfolded

[Santi871]

well I gave it another try, put three planes coming towards me at 40-60-80km

and tested the Su-27 BVR radar

 

After some fiddling it picks up one (1)

after that None (0)

when 2 planes past me I u-turned, never able to make them show on the radar

 

short range radar(s) work, but

I'd say the Su-27 BVR radar is a broken joke, it's Kaputt, with this u cannot engage a F-15C

u're going in blindfolded

 

I'm afraid that's your issue, the Su27's radar works 100% fine for me and I have zero issues with it.

 

Just set your display range to 100km and high PRF, let it scan at 0 elevation, then move it to +1 and -1 to get an idea of your contacts' relative altitude.

[ShuRugal]

well I gave it another try, put three planes coming towards me at 40-60-80km

and tested the Su-27 BVR radar

 

After some fiddling it picks up one (1)

after that None (0)

when 2 planes past me I u-turned, never able to make them show on the radar

 

short range radar(s) work, but

I'd say the Su-27 BVR radar is a broken joke, it's Kaputt, with this u cannot engage a F-15C

u're going in blindfolded

 

Don't worry mate, I have the same problem every time i fly the F-15C: I have absolutely no idea where my radar is pointed vertically because i'm used to the way the Russian birds display that info.

 

The problem going between the two birds is a fundamental difference in how the designers approached displaying the radar tilt information. In the russian aircraft, all the numbers are relative to your own position, but in the F-15, all the numbers are absolute, and you have to know where you are in relation to them.

[Ironhand]

well I gave it another try, put three planes coming towards me at 40-60-80km

and tested the Su-27 BVR radar

...

I'd say the Su-27 BVR radar is a broken joke, it's Kaputt, with this u cannot engage a F-15C

u're going in blindfolded

The Su-27's radar is working just fine. This morning I searched and found an aircraft 240+ km away. Granted it was a transport aircraft (so it had a large RCS) but the point is that the radar works just fine. I've seen no noticeable difference in the radar range recently against targets of any sort.

 

If you want to, send me a copy of your mission. Be sure to let me know what version of the sim you are flying as well (1.2 or Beta 1.5). I'll take a look at it and see if there is anything odd about it. My email is: flankertraining(at)yahoo(dot)com . Or just add it as an attachment to your next post.

 

If you are going up against F-15s, don't forget that you'll need to close the range sufficiently to burn through their jamming strobes.

 

EDIT: I just reread your original post. If you're still talking about the same mission, the first wave consists of two B-52s and 2 F-5s. The 2 B-52s are jamming their hearts out and the F-5s, which have a very small RCS, are buried in the jamming strobes. That's actually the issue. They have a much smaller RCS than F-15s and you can't see them through the jamming until you either 1) are very close or 2) are sufficiently offset that they are no longer concealed by the jammers. I actually made a video of that mission. After you kill all four aircraft, a 2nd wave appears and, then a third. The radar still works as it did in that mission when I recorded it. If you want, check it out:

 

[ame=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=accjDdzfYkc] Su-27 Intercept[/ame]

Edited November 26, 2015 by Ironhand