Can't dode a single missile

[LtMacGowan]

Ive been playing the MiG 21 stand alone missions and campaigns and every time, EVERY time i get launched upon I get shot down. Now obviously I'm not evading the missiles properly.

 

How am I supposed to evade them? Which way do I break? do I climb? dive? add thrust, cut thrust?

 

I hit the pop chaff/flare button and i hear 1 or 2 thunks but the missile always always hits me. Please theres no training mission like in A-10C on missile avoidance and obviously what i learned for the A-10C isn't working for the MiG 21.

 

Ill give the most common example in the "HARDEST" A-A mission the first target the F-16 MLU i start off about 6 miles behind him, at same altitude, while im powering up my jamming pod and switching my missile selector switches and such he changes direction he turns into me by breaking right and dropping down, and fires an AIM-120 at me, I've tried breaking left, right, up, down, popping chaff/flares I get hit every single time. Some one PLEASE point me to something that can show me how to evade this damned missile.

[Cletust8]

The jamming pod doesn't work. If you cant put an AMRAAM into a mountain you arent going to shake it. The '21 really doesnt stack up against 4th gen fighters.

[Kev2go]

Ive been playing the MiG 21 stand alone missions and campaigns and every time, EVERY time i get launched upon I get shot down. Now obviously I'm not evading the missiles properly.

 

How am I supposed to evade them? Which way do I break? do I climb? dive? add thrust, cut thrust?

 

I hit the pop chaff/flare button and i hear 1 or 2 thunks but the missile always always hits me. Please theres no training mission like in A-10C on missile avoidance and obviously what i learned for the A-10C isn't working for the MiG 21.

 

Ill give the most common example in the "HARDEST" A-A mission the first target the F-16 MLU i start off about 6 miles behind him, at same altitude, while im powering up my jamming pod and switching my missile selector switches and such he changes direction he turns into me by breaking right and dropping down, and fires an AIM-120 at me, I've tried breaking left, right, up, down, popping chaff/flares I get hit every single time. Some one PLEASE point me to something that can show me how to evade this damned missile.

 

yea for some reason the as2 pod, the countermeasures dont seem to throw off modern missiles most of the time, even if you spam the entirety of them, against just 1 missile.

 

is the flrares/chaffs not properly modled or is there a difference in the matrials used for flares/chaffs, on modern fighters, that makes it more effective?

 

flares/chaffs countermeasures on 4th gen stuff seem to be more effective.

[PiedDroit]

Also in the campaigns there are places you are just not supposed to go to...

That said I would be interested if someone could post a track where he's handling this hardest A-A mission ;)

[VEPR 12]

In MiG best defence against AAMRAM or AIM 7 is to break hard parallel too then into missile course and dive. If done proper you will have good chance at dodging of missile. ASO pod is best to use to interrupt known radar lock or evade Heat seeking or Manpad, but limited against AMRAAM or sparrow and best to evade those missile through pilotage

 

Went front aspect radar active missile come countermeasure in Mig is not enough, must take agressive defense maneuver

 

When launch from manpad or heat seak, cut afterburner and break hard into missile direction while shooting countermeasure

Edited December 5, 2015 by VEPR 12

[Darkwolf]

When shot from long range, turn and escape. If medium range, dive 90° then either get lost in ground clutter or get back up to bleed missile, depending on shooter aspect. If close range, just pull as much G as you can at last moment.

Amraam are easy to defeat when you know missile logic. Aim7 are way more dangerous.

 

I don't use chaff at all, they are useless. I take more flares for short range sam.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Darkwolf

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

Here is a Tac view of me and my wing man evading a pair of AIM120.

 

I was flying lead, I knew the F15 had us in TWS mode and was sure he must have launched so I broke 90 degree right and dove below the horizon relative to his radar. At that moment we were in the notch, with very little doppler red shift or blue shift and so the missile lock was broken. We popped flares and chaff at about the time we went into the notch.

 

So the key is to be in the notch. 90 degree angle to the radar that is traveling toward you and below his horizon.

 

[ame=

]

[/ame]

[Darkwolf]

Once you get 90° aspect, you are basically a stealth fighter. Remember Mig-21 feature a Radar Cross Section that is very, very low. Once you drop the doppler (Keeping = distance from radar) you are invisible if not locked in STT.

 

You can easily approach F-15 by keeping them in your 6/9 until you are out of their cone detection.

 

Modern submarine simulators are perfect training for this concept :D

[LtMacGowan]

Ok so i learned that there are 2 different systems the flares from the jamming pod they make a loud thunk and only pop out every 1-3 seconds but the ASO pod seems to pop them out quicker.

 

What I don't know is how to fight the MiG-21. For example in the opening moments of the Hardest Mission A-A, I'm behind the F-16 MLU, I'll lock him up with the a radar guided missile and fire at around 3.5 miles, then switch to IR because he always breaks the lock. Now at this point I don't know what to do, should I try and turn with the F-16? or take the fight into the vertical? Whenever I try to violently maneuver to break missile lock i seem to either do 3 things, 1 fail and get blown up, 2 stall my engine and get blown up waiting for the emergency relight, 3, enter a flat spin and die.

 

Also i seem to be set in this mindset of Engage! Engage! and keep fighting the F-16 rather than turning cold and trying to gain position on it. I wish the manual or even a training mission would set you up in basic positions and show you what you should do. When I try to turn with the F-16 i pop the speed break and try and get an IR lock we're at like 1 mile or closer, and i just can't get the pipper to stay locked on him for long enough for the missile to launch and if it does, he s pulling so much G the missile doesn't track, and well guns forget it,

 

Ayways for the campaign missions ive come up with a strategy im about to implement in the 1 mission where you are flying CAP, you and you're wing man are flying and a group of 4 enemy fighters comes in, I'm going to try and fly away from them really low and blend in with the ground clutter, let them pass and then turn on them and see if i can't pop them with a IR missile with out using radar.

[Sweep]

TL;DR: You want an FC3 player for a wingman and don't take chaff!

 

AFAIK the MiG-21 has the same RCS as every other fighter....

 

To defeat a Slammer fired from 6-10nmi at medium/low alt, lets say 8-20,000 ft, you have to beam the missile, dive, get your speed up, then pull up and into it. The real killer here is the lack of situational awareness provided by the radar and RWR in the Fishbed. Quick edit: If you can deny the AMRAAM shot in the first place, do it!

 

As for dogfighting, go find Shaw's book on air combat and/or read this http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/aetc/publication/aetcttp11-1/aetcttp11-1 . pdf

 

Note the spaces between the . and pdf at the end.

 

BTW, the chaff is just as effective on the MiG, one just doesn't get enough of it, 16 chaff won't do it, and as darkwolf said, 64 flares is much better.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Sweep
added something

[OnlyforDCS]

 

AFAIK the MiG-21 has the same RCS as every other fighter....

 

 

Not sure about that, but I think Wags recently mentioned that the way the radar works in DCS is directly proportional to the size and shape of the 3d model. Which is one of the reasons why they didn't implement scaling in the classical way and opted for a sprite image. (As 3d model scaling would mess with radar cross sections).

[fixen]

Here is a Tac view of me and my wing man evading a pair of AIM120.

 

I was flying lead, I knew the F15 had us in TWS mode and was sure he must have launched so I broke 90 degree right and dove below the horizon relative to his radar. At that moment we were in the notch, with very little doppler red shift or blue shift and so the missile lock was broken. We popped flares and chaff at about the time we went into the notch.

 

So the key is to be in the notch. 90 degree angle to the radar that is traveling toward you and below his horizon.

 

 

I see your wingman used lag to evade the missile...

[GGTharos]

The 3D model has nothing to do with RCS in this game. The MiG-21 had the same RCS as other fighters, and that's fine. If you read the HAVE DOUGHNUT documents you'll find there's no magical low RCS mig-21. Old fighter radars would pick up the MiG from 50nm look down and over 60nm look up.

[Sweep]

I'll have a doughnut!

:D

[OnlyforDCS]

The 3D model has nothing to do with RCS in this game. The MiG-21 had the same RCS as other fighters, and that's fine. If you read the HAVE DOUGHNUT documents you'll find there's no magical low RCS mig-21. Old fighter radars would pick up the MiG from 50nm look down and over 60nm look up.

 

Like I said I wasn't sure how RCS is calculated in DCS so okay, noted.

[Kev2go]

Here is a Tac view of me and my wing man evading a pair of AIM120.

 

I was flying lead, I knew the F15 had us in TWS mode and was sure he must have launched so I broke 90 degree right and dove below the horizon relative to his radar. At that moment we were in the notch, with very little doppler red shift or blue shift and so the missile lock was broken. We popped flares and chaff at about the time we went into the notch.

 

So the key is to be in the notch. 90 degree angle to the radar that is traveling toward you and below his horizon.

 

 

evaded the first time

you still died by an aim120c in the end tho.....