mattebubben Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) The falcon would indeed be interesting, but I wouldn't want to face down anything more capable than an F-86 with it. It was notoriously bad compared to the AIM-9. the Swedish made variant had a more capable seeker then those used by the US in vietnam though. Aswell as a bunch of other upgrades on it. Id say it will probably not be added for the AJS-37. If they made an AJ then yes but for the AJS-37 no. I dont even think the AJS-37 was able to use them with the new rails it received to mount Aim-9s on the outer pylon instead. But there is also the fact that the RB-28 (Aim-4) was already retierd by then (taken out of service in the late 70s early 80s). Sweden acquired the RB-28 (upgraded Aim-4 variant) in the early sixties with license production and sweden and it entering service here in 1965. It was aquired together with a SARH variant of its cousin the AIM-26. Wich was also upgraded and produced under license in sweden. They where both Aquired to arm the newer variant of the J-35 draken that enterd service during that time (J-35F/F2) and where intended to replace the Aim-9B as the main armament of the J-35F variant (they would carry both during the service period) Since the Mission for the J-35 During the Time was to Intercept and take out any incoming bombers at high altitudes the RB-28 was deemed well suited to that task (together with the larger radar guided variant that enabled head on attacks) This coupled with the fact that and Soviet Bomber would be unlikley to still have an escort by the time it reached swedish airspace (due to the limited legs of most soviet fighters of the time) made the RB-28 a good choice at the time. And also this was before the Aim-4 got such a bad reputation in Vietnam. Earlier J-35s Used the RB-24 (Aim-9B) and the F variant used the two falcon variants aswell as the Aim-9B. up untill the late 70s when sweden started acquiring the more advanced RB-24J (Aim-9J or Aim-9P sources differ but more sources point towards the Aim-9P) wich then started to replace the Aim-9Bs and the IR Guided Falcons (RB-28) in the early 80s all RB-28s went into storage and where most likley deactivated in the late 80s. And while the Aim-4 was not a Brilliant missile the reputation it got after the vietnam war was not completly deserved. And in sweden it was not disliked and did well against mock targets etc and had many refinements over the Aim-4 in US service. Id have to say though that the RB-27 (Aim-26) was the better Purchase of the two since the Radar guided variant gave not abillities to the Swedish fighters when it came to air-combat / interceptions. Especially since we already had the Aim-9B in service. And i feel like it would probaby have been better to have had the RB-24 wired for the outer pylons of the AJ-37 from the start and then the RB-24J when it enterd service in the late 70s. Edited January 24, 2016 by mattebubben
MBot Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 There are some differences between the two graphics for the AJ 37 (not AJS). RB 75 on wing stations? RB 04 on center station?
MBot Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 And i feel like it would probaby have been better to have had the RB-24 wired for the outer pylons of the AJ-37 from the start and then the RB-24J when it enterd service in the late 70s. I was under the impression that the outer wing stations remained unused because they caused too much stress on the wing. This was apparently rectified with some structural modification with the AJS upgrade.
Cobra847 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 There are some differences between the two graphics for the AJ 37 (not AJS). RB 75 on wing stations? RB 04 on center station? RB75 can be carried on inner wing stations. RB04 can be carried on centre pylon for ferry purposes only. Nicholas Dackard Founder & Lead Artist Heatblur Simulations https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/
BravoYankee4 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 I was under the impression that the outer wing stations remained unused because they caused too much stress on the wing. This was apparently rectified with some structural modification with the AJS upgrade. http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2606358&postcount=611
mattebubben Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) Does is specify the AJ-37 type for the second Graphic? This is the Armament options as shown in the AJS-37 Manual. Il see if i can find a Manual for the AJ-37. Also that Graphic might be outdated for the later AJS-37s as you might see on the 1994 Date. Since at the Time the Bk-90 was not yet adopted to the AJS-37 and it could be carried on the 4 Air-Ground Pylons instead of 2 shown on this Graphic. But since the BK-90 was not in service at the time of this graphics making they might not have decided everything yet. Edited January 24, 2016 by mattebubben
OziRekt Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Does anyone know more about the rocket pods and bombs fitted to the AJS-37? What warheads do they have, how effective area they against armoured targets? "We carried out many trials to try to find the answer to the fast, low-level intruder, but there is no adequate defense." — Air Vice-Marshal J. E. 'Johnnie' Johnson, RAF Can't charge us all
RaXha Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Does anyone know more about the rocket pods and bombs fitted to the AJS-37? What warheads do they have, how effective area they against armoured targets? The m/71 bombs are fragmentation bombs with a 120kg warhead, they can be equipped with drag chutes and can be set to either burst on impact or to burst above the target (this is set when arming the aircraft since it's two different kinds of fuses). The rockets are 13,5cm HE, they can be set to burst on impact or airburst just like the bombs. It also has the Bk90 Mjölner bomb pod, this can be equiped with either anti armor bomblets (like the CBU 97) or fragmentation bomblets. (the Bk90 was a late addition to the AJS so I'm unsure if it will be modeled or not). It has two different A/G missiles, the Rb05 (a manually controlled missile for ground targets or slow moving aircraft like helicopters) and the Rb75 (AGM-65 Maverick, no need for more info there... :P). It can carry two different kinds of Anti-ship missiles, the older Rb 04 and the more modern RB15F (developed for the SAAB 39 Gripen). Note that the Viggen can't carry the more modern version of the RB15 that is capable of attacking ground targets, this version is meant for anti-ship only. :-) Edited January 25, 2016 by RaXha
BravoYankee4 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 The m/71 bombs are fragmentation bombs with a 120kg warhead, they can be equipped with drag chutes and can be set to either burst on impact or to burst above the target (this is set when arming the aircraft since it's two different kinds of fuses). The rockets are 13,5cm HE, they can be set to burst on impact or airburst just like the bombs. It also has the Bk90 Mjölner bomb pod, this can be equiped with either anti armor bomblets (like the CBU 97) or fragmentation bomblets. It has two different A/G missiles, the Rb05 (a manually controlled missile for ground targets or slow moving aircraft like helicopters) and the Rb75 (AGM-65 Maverick, no need for more info there... :P). It can carry two different kinds of Anti-ship missiles, the older Rb 04 and the more modern RB15F (developed for the SAAB 39 Gripen). Note that the Viggen can't carry the more modern version of the RB15 that is capable of attacking ground targets, this version is meant for anti-ship only. :-) I read somewhere that there are two different warheads for the rockets - HE and some more or less AP. Need to find that source again though... There are illumination bombs also.
RaXha Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) I read somewhere that there are two different warheads for the rockets - HE and some more or less AP. Need to find that source again though... There are illumination bombs also. That's possible, the manual is very sparse on this subject, there might be more info in the "secret parts" (have those been declassified btw?). But it would make sense that there is a fragmentation warhead since airburst without it would be kind of pointless. :-) Edited January 25, 2016 by RaXha
renhanxue Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 That's possible, the manual is very sparse on this subject, there might be more info in the "secret parts" (have those been declassified btw?). But it would make sense that there is a fragmentation warhead since airburst without it would be kind of pointless. :-) There were HEAT rockets for the Lansen and for the SK 60, but the Viggen's pods are HE (frag?) only AFAIK. Still waiting for a reply from the national archives re: the secret parts of the SFI.
RaXha Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 There were HEAT rockets for the Lansen and for the SK 60, but the Viggen's pods are HE (frag?) only AFAIK. Still waiting for a reply from the national archives re: the secret parts of the SFI. Great! Can't wait for the (hopefully) declassified "secret parts"! :D
Jediteo Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) The ARAK m/70 rockets can either be fitted with SHU70 (Spränghuvud 70) High Explosive or the PSHU70 (Pansarspänghuvud 70) Armour Piercing warheads. The rocket types were generally only kept to one warhead type per sortie, depending on the anticipated targets. Additionally there are different fuses for the rockets themselves, from impact (immediate) to proximity (radio Doppler) fuses. Edited January 25, 2016 by Jediteo [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
renhanxue Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 The ARAK m/70 rockets can either be fitted with SHU70 (Spränghuvud 70) High Explosive or the PSHU70 (Pansarspänghuvud 70) Armour Piercing warheads. The rocket types were generally only kept to one warhead type per sortie, depending on the anticipated targets. Additionally there are different fuses for the rockets themselves, from impact (immediate) to proximity (radio Doppler) fuses. More than I knew! Thanks!
renhanxue Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Speak of the devil, and he will soon appear on your doorstep. Look forward to tonight.
BravoYankee4 Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Speak of the devil, and he will soon appear on your doorstep. Look forward to tonight. Awesome! Do you have access to any automatic document scanner?
mattebubben Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Speak of the devil, and he will soon appear on your doorstep. Look forward to tonight. Thats awsome. Looking forward to hearing of the goodies =). And it should not take to long to read through ^^ its only a couple hundred pages :lol:
BravoYankee4 Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 I got so excited that I had to do a new random youtube Viggen video search :) [ame] [/ame]
emg Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 I was under the impression that the outer wing stations remained unused because they caused too much stress on the wing. This was apparently rectified with some structural modification with the AJS upgrade. AFAIK they didn't cause stress to the wing, they caused vibrations to the hung weapon which would reduce an IR-AAM's lifespan to about 100 hours. AFAIK they were cleared for use in wartime.
renhanxue Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Awesome! Do you have access to any automatic document scanner? I don't, but even if I had, I wouldn't have been allowed to bring one into the national archives reading room. What I do have is my trusty camera and a program that makes document photos look like scans.
RaXha Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Speak of the devil, and he will soon appear on your doorstep. Look forward to tonight. Beautiful! :book:
renhanxue Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Without further ado, I present the first part of my findings from today: FPL AJ37: speciell förarinstruktion, del 2, kapitel 1 (57 MB PDF). Chapters 2-6 were not in what I received - I'm not sure if this was because they haven't been declassified or because they weren't in this publication. I have asked via email, but no reply yet. There are two more parts that I will upload later tonight: part 3, which is full of performance diagrams (climb times, acceleration times, top speeds at a given engine RPM, things like that), and a collection of updated pages for part 2 - basically an errata of things that have changed after its publication.
Pikey Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Oh yeah thats the boy! good find. ___________________________________________________________________________ SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING *
renhanxue Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) Fpl AJ37: speciell förarinstruktion, del 3 (9 MB PDF) Performance charts, for all kinds of atmospheric conditions and loadouts. Chapter 7 (which contains information about maneuver performance, presumably rate of turn, rate of roll etc) is missing. Trivia: if I'm reading these graphs right, from a standstill on the ground, takeoff and acceleration to Mach 0.55 takes just over 30 seconds at full AB with a light combat loadout. From M 0.55 at a nominal 0 meters of altitude, accelerating to M 0.9 and climbing to 10 km with the same light combat loadout takes about 1 minute 45 seconds. Edited January 26, 2016 by renhanxue
mattebubben Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) Thanks a thousand times man. Its a very interesting read. Currently reading about the radar operation and weapons use etc. :Edit A very interesting read so far with plenty of information surrounding weapon deployment radar operations aswell as the countermeassure /RWR system. Sadly it appears to be a early AJ-37 Manual (Date says 1975) So informations on two of the weapon systems i was the most curious about are sadly not included =(. that being the RB-75 (Maverick) and the Visual Display (no visual display mounted at this time since the Mav was not yet in service while it was ordered in 75 it entered service in 77) And the other weapon being the RB-24J since i was curious about the abillity to uncage the seeker and if that included an abillity to slew the seekerhead (either manually or by slewing it to radar) But the infomation that is in it is amazing and its gonna take some time to go through everything =). So thanks again a hundred fold. Edited January 26, 2016 by mattebubben
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