Zarma Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 It has been almost 3 weeks since the release of the mirage and I know a lot of work is being done but could we get some infos on the next updates ? i9 9900k, 64 Go RAM, RTX 4090, Warthog HOTAS Throttle & Stick, Virpil AH64 collective, TPR rudder, MFD Cougar, Trackir 5 Pro, Multipurpose UFC, Alain Dufour's TEDAC and Oculus Rift S (when I want some VR), http://www.twitch.tv/zarma4074 / https://www.youtube.com/user/Zarma4074
=DECOY= Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Already a thread on this, the first page has the updates which will be applied http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=156925&highlight=update Water cooled i9-9900K | Maximus Code XI MB | RTX3090 | 64GB | HP Reverb G2
Snoopy Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Because updates are pushed by ED. Third parties are at the mercy of ED on when updates are released. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
NeilWillis Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 And as ED have had just a couple of days back at work after their Christmas break, you are being a little optimistic expecting something so soon. Give the poor guys a chance to get their feet under the table!
Hook47 Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 The way I see it, the longer it is, the more gets fixed on the M2000 (hopefully)
sedenion Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 i have good hope for an update this friday...
wildcolonialboy Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 And as ED have had just a couple of days back at work after their Christmas break, you are being a little optimistic expecting something so soon. Give the poor guys a chance to get their feet under the table! A couple of days? In the northern hemisphere most offices would have been back on the 4th Jan. An ETA is a reasonable request given this isn't just a few minor bugs but things like keybinding that renders the product unusable to many users. Beta stage is supposed to cover minor issues, or issues related to specific hardware, not major functionality that prevents a significant class of users from using the product.
codefox Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 A couple of days? In the northern hemisphere most offices would have been back on the 4th Jan. Orthodox christmas is celebrated on the 7th of January. Since ED is located in Russia, they just came back this week. I'd say Friday will be the day. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
wildcolonialboy Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Orthodox christmas is celebrated on the 7th of January. Since ED is located in Russia, they just came back this week. I'd say Friday will be the day. Is that "Friday based on a little inside information" or "I'm hoping it's Friday"?
codefox Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Is that "Friday based on a little inside information" or "I'm hoping it's Friday"? Usually DCS updates were coming out on Fridays and since there are some rather urgent bugfixes, I think ED has set some priority on pushing them out. Don't take my word on it tho, but it seems very reasonable. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
NeilWillis Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Friday is currently the 1.5.2 update day, and 2.0 usually follows on the Monday. Whether that is to be the norm now is anyone's guess however, and whether ED will update this soon after their break is also not clear. We can just hope it comes along soon I think.
wildcolonialboy Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Friday is currently the 1.5.2 update day, and 2.0 usually follows on the Monday. Whether that is to be the norm now is anyone's guess however, and whether ED will update this soon after their break is also not clear. We can just hope it comes along soon I think. I suppose my disappointment is compounded by the fact I (1) Injured my right hand quite badly in a car accident a few years ago, I find flight sticks incredibly uncomfortable to use and so keyboard is the only way I can use ED (2) I'm a trainee solicitor so I don't earn a huge amount of money. I also had to work over Christmas, I took today and tomorrow off to play Mirage 2000C and was really looking forward to it (3) ED's response is that they don't have to comply with UK consumer law (which provides exactly the same consumer rights for digital products as for physical ones) when I queried the possibility of a refund. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 essentially inserts into every contract clauses that the goods must be of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose; if they are unsatisfactory in a particular way that must be specifically brought to the consumer's attention prior to purchase. The act also provides a right to a refund and any contractual terms that are inconsistent with the act (such as ED's clause claiming they offer no refunds) are struck out. As I said before, inability to use the keyboard is a pretty fundamental issue, it's really an alpha issue not a beta issue. Even for people who are physically capable of using flight sticks, I understand there are still problems with throttle and rudder. Anyway, I'll wait to see what they say in the support ticket
wildcolonialboy Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Usually DCS updates were coming out on Fridays and since there are some rather urgent bugfixes, I think ED has set some priority on pushing them out. Don't take my word on it tho, but it seems very reasonable. Fair enough, sounds logical; I hope you're right
PiedDroit Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 The Consumer Rights Act 2015 essentially inserts into every contract clauses that the goods must be of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose; if they are unsatisfactory in a particular way that must be specifically brought to the consumer's attention prior to purchase. The act also provides a right to a refund and any contractual terms that are inconsistent with the act (such as ED's clause claiming they offer no refunds) are struck out. As I said before, inability to use the keyboard is a pretty fundamental issue, it's really an alpha issue not a beta issue. Even for people who are physically capable of using flight sticks, I understand there are still problems with throttle and rudder. Anyway, I'll wait to see what they say in the support ticket The module was even not officially released... It's a BETA Technically, you shouldn't be a able to file a complain under that act until official release. A lawyer might think otherwise, I'm not one. When I bought it I was fully aware that it was a beta and therefore some stuff wouldn't work. I understand your frustration, but as many other users, you wanted it as soon as possible and afterwards complain it's not finished... If you can get your refund, you can now wait for release and wait for sale to get an even better price. With that delay, all issues should have been sorted out and you 'll be able to enjoy it fully.
wildcolonialboy Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 The module was even not officially released... It's a BETA Technically, you shouldn't be a able to file a complain under that act until official release. I'm sorry to say you're confused about that. If money changes hands and a consumer transaction has occurred, then the consumer has all the ordinary rights. A lawyer might think otherwise, I'm not one. I am, and I work on consumer law issues. Once money has changed hands for a product, all the old s11-s14 SGA entitlements are read into the contract. When I bought it I was fully aware that it was a beta and therefore some stuff wouldn't work. I was well aware it was beta, with all that implies. Lack of keybinding is a major functionality issue that properly falls into the category of alpha. I can't even take off because the throttle doesn't work. I understand your frustration, but as many other users, you wanted it as soon as possible and afterwards complain it's not finished... I expected it wouldn't be finished. What I didn't expect was that I literally cannot use the plane in any way, shape or form due to its inability to take off, rudder, flight controls etc
TomCatMucDe Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 weird to bring this topic to a legal matter. One could argue that you are supposed to use adequate hardware to benefit from a product. In the case of a flight simulator, a joystick. I dont see why they are ,legally speaking, obliged to support keybindings for axis. I am sure they will do though. If you don't own one or cant own one because of your disability (I ve seen that from another post and I am sorry for that) you can ask for a refund in a defined period after purchase, passed that period the seller isnt entitled to refund you. I can also subscribe to a contract with a data plan, but I cant complain to the carrier that my Nokia 3310 doesnt connect to internet.
wildcolonialboy Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 weird to bring this topic to a legal matter. One could argue that you are supposed to use adequate hardware to benefit from a product. In the case of a flight simulator, a joystick. Every flight simulator ever released has had keyboard control as the basic form of control, a flight stick is an *add-on*. I dont see why they are ,legally speaking, obliged to support keybindings for axis. They're legally required to provide a product that is consistent with what a reasonable person would expect in terms of functionality. Keyboard bindings falls into that category. If you don't own one or cant own one because of your disability (I ve seen that from another post and I am sorry for that) you can ask for a refund in a defined period after purchase, passed that period the seller isnt entitled to refund you. That's not quite how UK consumer law works, but let's go with that; if I can ask for a refund in a defined period, then why are they denying it? I only purchased it about 3 hours ago
TomCatMucDe Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Every flight simulator ever released has had keyboard control as the basic form of control, a flight stick is an *add-on*. It is nowhere written that this is a rule neither a law. Other vendors doing this doesnt make it a law. Besides youyou are comparing with finished products. They're legally required to provide a product that is consistent with what a reasonable person would expect in terms of functionality. Keyboard bindings falls into that category. A reasonable person wanting to fly sims need a joystick, keyboard and a mouse one can argue. That's not quite how UK consumer law works, but let's go with that; if I can ask for a refund in a defined period, then why are they denying it? I only purchased it about 3 hours ago Maybe you should be patient for a final answer from ED or Razbam. You have the right to retract your purchase without even a reason if you purchased your product 3 hours before. EU laws clearly states that online purchases can be returned 14 days after reception without having to give a reason at all.
QuiGon Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 (edited) [...] Apart from the legal stuff: It's a fresh product that has just been released (as a beta, the full release is still in the future). You miss a function that hasn't been included in the initial release. I think they just haven't thought about that functionality since they, like most users, use a stick for that. But they already added said functionality and it will be rolled out with the next update. I can understand your anger, but I think it's not really appropriate. A function that only a few people need has been forgotten, but will be added as soon as possible. It's not like they intentionally tricked you into something just to get your money. Edited January 14, 2016 by QuiGon Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
wildcolonialboy Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 EU laws clearly states that online purchases can be returned 14 days after reception without having to give a reason at all. They say they are not bound and refuse; I asked. I pointed out that consumer law overrides a term in their licence agreement which claims not to allow refunds, they have not responded. It is nowhere written that this is a rule neither a law. Other vendors doing this doesnt make it a law. What do you mean "it is nowhere written"? It doesn't sound like you're familiar with English common law. The UK Consumer Rights Act sections around "satisfactory quality" and "fitness for purpose" are judged on what the "reasonable person" would expect. A previous industry standard or business practice is highly likely to give rise to such an expectation In any case, ED has said they're not bound by any of it, European or UK law in spite of the countries into which they are selling the products
wildcolonialboy Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 A function that only a few people need has been forgotten Only a few people need rudder and throttle?
Azrayen Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Yes. Only few people (of the flight sim community, suceptible to buy a beta module) need rudder and throttle from keyboard. Most simmers have a joystick and many a HOTAS. The issue you have was first noted because of rudder, that less people own.
QuiGon Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Only a few people need rudder and throttle? ... on their keyboard. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
TomCatMucDe Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 What do you mean "it is nowhere written"? It doesn't sound like you're familiar with English common law. The UK Consumer Rights Act sections around "satisfactory quality" and "fitness for purpose" are judged on what the "reasonable person" would expect. A previous industry standard or business practice is highly likely to give rise to such an expectation In any case, ED has said they're not bound by any of it, European or UK law in spite of the countries into which they are selling the products I dont need to know the law to say that words like "reasonable" requirements are matter of debate. In simming, a reasonable person would fly with 15 euros stick. Reaonable simmer do that and fly with sticks, not always rudders, but surely with sticks. thats the case of the overwhelming majority here. If you buy a Jaguar and have -5 point sight, you can't complain to Jaguar that you cant drive their car because your disability. They wouldnt offer you glasses either. Same, when you buy a computer and want to connect to internet, you need an external modem. A TV requires an external Antena, a data plan requirest a smart phone internet capable... I don't know which laws bound ED since they are based outside the EU. That's a topic you can discuss it with them directly.
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