Optimum Circling pattern using TGP.

[bunraku]

Hi

Whats the optimum way to find things using the TGP and then keep them in sight when circling on Autopilot? I had an issue last night where my plane was masking the view probably 40% of the time which obviously got annoying. So whats the optimum

 

 

Height?

 

Bank angle?

 

Assuming the target is on the left and my TGP is on right outide pylon would it be best to fly Anti Clockwise so the Pod is wing down or clockwise with wing up?

 

Any other advice?

 

 

Thanks

[Kimi_uy]

The only thing i can sugest is orbiting to the side where the TGP is. Say your tgp is on your right wing, u wanna do a right hand turn orbit. This way it will only be masked with the wing, if it was the other way around you'd be masking with the whole aircraft.

 

Height parameter depens on the theat, time and distance to tgt, so what ever is safer can be a good start.

 

As for bank angle, the higher the bank the faster you'll have to cut through the air so for the sake of fuel keep it around 30-45. Also note that bank coupled with airspeed dictates how long it takes to do a lap.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Kimi_uy

[Aginor]

If your angle to the target area is steep (for example when you are flying rather high and close to your target) you get much less masking.

The problem with that is: You are near your targets, so they will probably react. Your other problem is of course that when you are too high up you can't see a damn thing, and below 12,000ft you are a perfect target for MANPADS.

 

EDIT:

The only think i can sugest is orbiting to the side where the TGP is.

is also a good idea. Edited January 15, 2016 by Aginor

[BaconSarnie]

Its a difficult equation at times, you need your orbit to give you the maximum viewing time on the target but in doing that it means your turn radius will be slower meaning more masked time. I have yet to find the perfect angle/speed/direction.

[Aginor]

I don't think there is such a thing as a perfect one, it depends on the situation.

Imagine flying a circle with 8nm radius at 10,000ft, always pointing your right wing with the TGP toward the target. The target will never be masked, but that doesn't mean it is a good orbit in a real battle situation. You can do that in training mission though, it is pretty comfortable. :)

[StrongHarm]

I prefer 10k at 10nm from target at 200knts which requires low bank angle. I then use ALT AP so I can concentrate on my MFCD (yes slow can be bad, but at high alt with a good standoff you can nose down and rush the deck pretty easily). This is only if I know the threat picture around the target. If I don't want to orbit the target because of uncertain threats I'll do 15k+ at 10+nm and run a tight and long parallel track on two consistent pre-decided vectors (so I don't lose SA and end up over a threat). I'll change direction not based on a predefined distance, but on effectiveness of TGP visual. This is personal pref.. it may not be good or realistic SOP.

[Doughboy]

If you're sure there are no threats in the area or you are in a position to avoid them and are having problems flying a circular orbit fly a box pattern around it making turns into your pod to keep it on the side toward the target.

[Xavven]

I'm assuming you mean that you can't make a right hand orbit completely around the target, perhaps because or air defenses or some other restrictions. In that case, you can just fly a somewhat linear track back and forth, making a u-turn at each end. For example:

 

 

...................TGT

 

 

 

 

 

>--------(flight path)------------<

[StrongHarm]

= 'parallel track' pattern

[bunraku]

OK. You have a defended town and they are calling out incoming vehicles coming from 4 different directions, but not at the same time. I am struggling to find the vehicles called out or at least in time. I am maybe circling too close and that's something I will work on.

 

My main question is how to spot the vehicles quickly. Right now I am China hat aft long so my tgp slaves to the current steerpoint and then I start moving the pod along the road in the direction given. This can take a minute plus to locate the vehicles. What I want advice on is how to get the tgp to the vehicle area quicker. More like a snapview.

 

So if the defenders state tanks 2nm to the west, what's the best way to get it 2nm west without travelling the pod 2nm west slowly down a road?

 

Thanks

[Dagger71]

No such thing as snapview on the pod. It's a sensor and you will be required to slew to the target all the time.

 

 

But you can set your gun piper as SPI allowing you to slew where you are flying essentially.

 

If your HUD is is SOI and you have guns selected you can do TMS down short to make IFCC SPI. Now where the gun piper points, your TGP will follow. Drop mark points when you are near targets, then switch to TGP to fine tune your search and tracking.

 

One other option is using your TAD as reference and drop mark points at approximate locations on the map. This method however can lead to dropping marks all over the place so use sparingly.

 

Also if your orbit diameter is equal to your altitude, then you will have a nice 45 degree angle using a clockwise turn. This of course is much more difficult to do then it sounds.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Dagger71

[StrongHarm]

The best way to go about having fixed reference points for search would be to look at your TAD and create a few mark points. You can then anchor TAD to the markpoint and slew sensors to it.

 

For details and other great ideas for target spotting read this old thread thoroughly:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=67432

 

Also, view Gerry Abbott's excellent video on efficiently using the TAD and markpoints:

[ame]

[/ame]

[Dagger71]

The best way to go about having fixed reference points for search would be to look at your TAD and create a few mark points. You can then anchor TAD to the markpoint and slew sensors to it.

 

For details and other great ideas for target spotting read this old thread thoroughly:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=67432

 

Also, view Gerry Abbott's excellent video on efficiently using the TAD and markpoints:

 

 

Yes I meant TAD... that is the easiest start point, but can be quite imprecise, unless you get more detailed directions to target.

[Xavven]

OK. You have a defended town and they are calling out incoming vehicles coming from 4 different directions, but not at the same time. I am struggling to find the vehicles called out or at least in time. I am maybe circling too close and that's something I will work on.

 

My main question is how to spot the vehicles quickly. Right now I am China hat aft long so my tgp slaves to the current steerpoint and then I start moving the pod along the road in the direction given. This can take a minute plus to locate the vehicles. What I want advice on is how to get the tgp to the vehicle area quicker. More like a snapview.

 

So if the defenders state tanks 2nm to the west, what's the best way to get it 2nm west without travelling the pod 2nm west slowly down a road?

 

Thanks

 

Ah, you're talking about the "Surrounded!" mission, right?

 

TBH, this mission is good practice for spotting targets with your eyeballs. Once you see a target, you can either make a gun or mk82 run on it, or you can point your nose at the target, use the TDC (the square box) to designate a SPI, then slew your TGP to it to use guided ordnance.

 

OR...

 

Contact the JTAC and he'll get you on the target.

 

OR...

 

As others have said, you can put a mark point on the TAD (map) and slew your TGP to it. In the case of "Surrounded!", you can put a mark point at each city around your friendlies and switch to each one as new targets are called out. Honestly, I don't mind have a bajillion mark points made. Just keep the most useful ones in short term memory, or write it down on a piece of paper. IRL A-10 pilots use the inside of their cockpit windows as scratch paper (using grease pencils).

[StrongHarm]

Yes I meant TAD... that is the easiest start point, but can be quite imprecise, unless you get more detailed directions to target.

 

Agreed, it can be imprecise. The more I do it the better I get at it though. I like to absorb all the land marks I can when getting a visual fix then transpose that to the top down map in the TAD. Distance guesstimations get better with each attempt. I'm pretty close most of the time. One of my favorite tactics is spotting a threat visually, then terrain masking and setting up a mark on the tad. I'll then unmask and snap off a mav quickly since I have it pre-slewed. It's really a rush when it works out.

[Bob Denny]

This has to be the best thread I've read here!! Thanks to everyone who has contributed! StrongHarm, I hope to reach your level some year...

[Kimi_uy]

One lil piece of advice regarding markpoints, each time u create one the cdu goes automatically to the mk point page, this is so u can create an actual mission waypoint with a custom name so u dont have to remember which letter is what.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Kimi_uy

[StrongHarm]

This has to be the best thread I've read here!! Thanks to everyone who has contributed! StrongHarm, I hope to reach your level some year...

 

Thanks brother! I've been flying since beta, but there are a lot of people on these boards more knowledgeable. My secret power is that I've read the manual 82 times heheh. The awesome thing about DCS is that we're emulating a field of work where people inherently overcome what was previously perceived as human limitations. We get to overcome our own personal perceived limitations in doing so. Keep reaching and teach me something later (beauty of these boards)!

[Bob Denny]

Optimum Circling pattern using TGP.

 

He he you hit the nail on the head! It's not knowledge, it's skill and art, just like playing a musical instrument etc. The truly successful pilots practice and fail many many many times, and once in a while ... that ah-ha moment that makes it all worth while. That's how perceived limitations and talent-envy fall by the wayside. I've been an aviator all of my life. I made instrument flight, the old school type with VOR/ADF and basic gyro instruments, the art to which I aspired. I think I reached a pretty good level. I had some great teachers. What you're saying is that there are some great teachers here. I suspect you're one of them.

[EntropySG]

The mission 'Surrounded' really is one of the best imo, took me many attempts until I could complete it (hint: dont expend your standoff weapons in the beginning, you need them later).

 

My favorite way (when flying solo and in a permissive environment..) is to first spot targets by eyes, only then use the TGP.

 

china hat aft short to slew TGP to borsesight. Make sure TGP is SOI, and look for the TGP symbol in the HUD. Spot targets and fly the nose of the aircraft so that the TGP symbol on the HUD is over the target. Touch the TGP slew control just once so the TGP locks onto the ground. This all takes just 1 second flying towards the target, as soon as you have the ground locked you can turn off the target.

 

Now you have your TGP in close proximity to the target, go heads down and lock onto it, make a markpoint and execute your attack.

[Bob Denny]

Optimum Circling pattern using TGP.

 

Well I have a long way to go. I'm still playing chopsticks.

[Fri13]

I never really understood why A-10C doesn't support two TGP same time where automatically the otherside would be swapped when the aircraft fuselag/wing blocks the view from the another one.

[Enduro14]

I never really understood why A-10C doesn't support two TGP same time where automatically the otherside would be swapped when the aircraft fuselag/wing blocks the view from the another one.

 

a more logical position would be the belly and you would never lose track of an area or tgt on the famous race track pattern

[Eddie]

I never really understood why A-10C doesn't support two TGP same time where automatically the otherside would be swapped when the aircraft fuselag/wing blocks the view from the another one.

 

Double the drag, double the weight, one less weapon station for ordnance, and all for nothing.

 

You're looking for solutions to problems that don't exist. Remember that you, and most simmers out there, are generally not using the aircraft and its systems in the same way as they're used in real life.

 

a more logical position would be the belly and you would never lose track of an area or tgt on the famous race track pattern

 

And yet, testing on numerous aircraft types has shown the centreline is often the worst place to locate a targeting pod when it comes to airframe/stores masking.

 

In a low threat COIN CAS scenario you can almost always fly a wheel/circle orbit around the target area, thus masking is no issue. And in a high threat conventional warfare scenario you'd be unlikely to be orbiting looking through the TGP at all. And if you were, you have to split heads down time with where required (although it's rarely required).

 

Aside from very specific and limited circumstances, the TGP just isn't used as a search tool, and on the rare occasion it is you'll have an idea of where to be looking and what you're looking for from FAC(A)/JTAC etc.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Eddie

[Fri13]

Double the drag, double the weight, one less weapon station for ordnance, and all for nothing.

 

You're looking for solutions to problems that don't exist. Remember that you, and most simmers out there, are generally not using the aircraft and its systems in the same way as they're used in real life.

 

 

 

And yet, testing on numerous aircraft types has shown the centreline is often the worst place to locate a targeting pod when it comes to airframe/stores masking.

 

In a low threat COIN CAS scenario you can almost always fly a wheel/circle orbit around the target area, thus masking is no issue. And in a high threat conventional warfare scenario you'd be unlikely to be orbiting looking through the TGP at all. And if you were, you have to split heads down time with where required (although it's rarely required).

 

Aside from very specific and limited circumstances, the TGP just isn't used as a search tool, and on the rare occasion it is you'll have an idea of where to be looking and what you're looking for from FAC(A)/JTAC etc.

Remember, I didn't say that why it should be there always, but why it isn't supported. As sometimes A-10C is great observer but not when it can get the blindfolded by itself.