Learning the F15c - but looking for help

[jaznit]

Hi all,

 

I'm new to DCS and starting out by learning the F15c before moving on to most likely the A10c. I'm about 37 hours in but alot of the early hours was just flying around before starting to really try learning. I am now spending time learning bit by bit and then focusing on how to use it during a real scenario.

 

I have some questions and hoping someone might be able to help me?

 

Disclaimer... As I'm trying to learn I'm just flying and trying to get a better handle on the radar, flying using AWACS on and not using the radar as much, using the ECM jammer, etc etc.

 

Question 1

I find a few times the enemy doesn't come up in my radar in LRS mode. You can see in the below clip at the 17:43 mark my AWACS confirms that the enemy is heading 325, 14 miles out and altitude of 7000 - so he should be right in front of me and within radar range but it's not being picked up on the LRS. LRS is set to 40 and height range is ok but still not picking it up.

 

Later around 18:38 I turn off the radar, and then when I turn it back on it comes right in front of me.

[ame=

]

[/ame] Sorry for the flick to google to check AWACS as I'd forgotten some of the detail.

 

Question 2

When do you use the ECM in a dog fight? Is there an optimal range from your enemy to activate this? I have been using it around 20miles out, but not sure on what's the best to do?

 

Or is it only to be used once the enemy has fired a missile?

 

Question 3

Troubles finding a target and locking on within LRS mode of the Radar

 

From the below clip I have called out a few things I found (I'm using a trial version so excuse the water mark)

- 7:13 Enemy is 298, 45, for 7000 but I can't see him and only see what looks to be someone using an ECM, at this point he should be in front of me

- 8:05 was able to see but couldn't lock on, so had to turn off and turn it back on

- 8:33 was finally able to lock on and then fire

 

[ame=

]

[/ame]

 

 

Hope someone can share what you know or have learnt, or any other tips that will help me.

 

 

Cheers

Jeff

SteamId: jaznit

[GGTharos]

Disclaimer... As I'm trying to learn I'm just flying and trying to get a better handle on the radar, flying using AWACS on and not using the radar as much, using the ECM jammer, etc etc.

 

Could use some changes in your flight technique habits, too ... you're in AB with 3 tanks at low altitude, fuel almost gone.

 

Are you stepping on rudder or is that crosswind?

 

Question 1

I find a few times the enemy doesn't come up in my radar in LRS mode. You can see in the below clip at the 17:43 mark my AWACS confirms that the enemy is heading 325, 14 miles out and altitude of 7000 - so he should be right in front of me and within radar range but it's not being picked up on the LRS. LRS is set to 40 and height range is ok but still not picking it up.

The radar search zone is a cone that you can consider attached to your aircraft. It becomes wider the further you go from the aircraft, and thus it is quite narrow when close by.

 

So, here it is very easy to scan over/under the altitude you want, and you don't now if you're scanning the correct altitude range because your TDC is way off in the 30+ nm range.

 

Put the TDC at the target range reported by the AWACS, then adjust elevation to ensure you're bracketing the correct altitudes.

Since you know the bandit's heading from you and it's right ahead of you, switch to the 60AZ scan to speed up updates.

Since you are in a tail-chase, you should put the radar into MPRF. Other PRFs can be very short-ranged against tail-chase targets.

At 14nm, you're almost at the range where you should be using AACQ modes.

When do you use the ECM in a dog fight? Is there an optimal range from your enemy to activate this? I have been using it around 20miles out, but not sure on what's the best to do?

You don't. ECM is ineffective inside 20nm, and will act as a beacon for the bandit's missiles to home in on. Against AI it is completely ineffective, but it shortens the range at which SAMs will engage you.

 

From the below clip I have called out a few things I found (I'm using a trial version so excuse the water mark)

- 7:13 Enemy is 298, 45, for 7000 but I can't see him and only see what looks to be someone using an ECM, at this point he should be in front of me

That's 298 for 40 at 7000, cold :)

 

There's no way you'll detect a cold target 40nm away. The best you can hope for is around 22nm in MPRF.

 

- 8:05 was able to see but couldn't lock on, so had to turn off and turn it back on

 

- 8:33 was finally able to lock on and then fire

 

Hope someone can share what you know or have learnt, or any other tips that will help me.

You don't know the radar limitations, which is fine; they're not really listed anywhere.

 

HRPF: Good for longest range head-on detection, expect 60-70nm for fighters co-altitude

MPRF: Good for longest range tail-aspect detection, expect 22nm for fighters co-altitude

Interleaved (Default mode): Inbetween the other two

 

When looking down, cut those ranges by 25-40%.

 

Your radar technique is non-existent :) Turning the radar on and off doesn't give you anything except MAYBE re-centering the antenna.

Learn how to read the altitude coverage of your radar at the TDC range.

 

... and stop kicking the rudder :P

Edited January 23, 2016 by GGTharos

[DrDetroit]

There are some very good youtube tutorials on how to use the F-15C radar. Will help you tremendously. Bunyap has some really good one, so does this guy:

 

[ame]

[/ame]

 

Good luck!

 

DrDetroit

[Ironhand]

...so does this guy:

 

 

Well, actually that's mine. He uploaded it under his handle. It's still a decent tutorial, though. :)

[DrDetroit]

Well, actually that's mine. He uploaded it under his handle. It's still a decent tutorial, though. :)

 

 

Yup, you did a great job with those tutorials. Help me out a lot! I believe you did a SU-27 radar tutorial that's just as well done. Thanks for posting those, even though older, they are still relevant.

 

Good day,

 

DrDetroit

[winchesterdelta1]

Q quick little guidance from me just to start with. (Multiplayer)

 

1. Try to get a good radar picture of what is happening. Try to remember approx where the friendly's and enemy's are. For beginners flya round angels 21 to 25. Don't try to fly in contrails.

2. When you find somebody to engage lock them up in TWS 1 or multiple bandits.

3. Start cranking. preferable crank the bandits in the direction where the most friendly's are. If you notice he cranks you as well. Crank him the opposite direction. If he corrects to keep you in his gimbal limits you know he is coming for you (Cranking = Put the locked contacts in your radar gimbal limits.Left or right).

4. Try to get a speed Mach 1.1 or higher. At around 14 miles start to turn into the bandits from the crank and nose down to get speed if needed. At this point his missile is already underway. If you already had a missile underway you need to do this very very fast.

5. When you release your missile crank back.. or depending on the situation crank the opposite direction you started from. Also remember the heading of the bandit. If your missile go's pitbull do a really sharp slice back on high speed as hard as you can without G locking. And run away low. Defend as needed against incoming missiles but while defending dont try to lose to much speed. Burt also do some high G evasive maneuvers otherwise the missile will still reach you.

6. When defending try to hide behind the first big or large mountain/hill you see. Always try to run towards friendly's that can support you. If you have really good speed you can after a while start climbing. But not to steep.

7. When you extend call out the heading where you extending towards to your friendly's.

 

Pointers:

 

* Download TS3: https://www.teamspeak.com/teamspeak3

* Join the Team Speak of the server you play on. And ask 1 or two other guy's if they want to answer your questions. If needed in a separate channel.

* Use noobs as bait.

* Shadow other friendly's.

* If you see a friendly extending (running) scan behind him. he might need some help. And mostly those bandits following that friendly are easy targets. (Not me. I probably still attack you while firing a last missile on the running guy).

* SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED

* For best success fir AIM-120C within 10 miles when he is not running.

* Sometimes be patient with your shot. So that bandit clears the mountain ridge so he can not hide behind it anymore. Or when firing AIM-9 wait till he stops flaring. i noticed most people start firing AIM-9 when you start flaring. Like they are suddenly reminded they have IR missiles.

* Be aggresisve but no to aggressive. Know when to run and when to stay. Be prepared for everything so keep an eye out of the cockpit. But don't be to careful. being to careful kills you quicker than being to aggressive. At least in my experience.

* When fighting SU-27's watch your afterburners and military speed. On idle they can not fire ET's from over 10 miles. ET's are easy to avoid if you expect them.... ALWAY'S EXPECT THEM. And drop pre-emptive flares when you are not sure if he launched ET or not. Defend against ET's by high speed turns with flares and minimum throttle. Or a stupid barrel roll with flares (pull some G's) and some hard breaks left right.

* Try not to get into a WVR fight with FUEL TANKS unless you know what you are doing. Always drop them in dogfights.

* Carry at least 1 AIM-7 so you can fire into a furball without accidentally hitting a friendly. And to use it as a sidwinder only less fats of the rails. But longer range and good against targets that are defeating AIM-120C's with high alpha maneuvering.

 

Last:

Always try to fight your own fight when you flying with 2 or more friendly's. I noticed that flying with friendly's can make you careless and not paying attention. Unless you fight with somebody that knows how to fight in pairs. (That are not much. Including me).

The above is some starting info... There is way more to it that others can explain you in detail in this topic. But it should give you some survival chance in MP.

 

Enjoy your flight man... Prepare for a lot of frustration. But also for fights that make your adrenaline rush trough your body and leave you with your hands shaking after the fight.

I will be waiting for you... And we have no merci. But dont worry... I'm make way to much stupid mistakes and i am way to aggressive.

[jaznit]

Could use some changes in your flight technique habits, too ... you're in AB with 3 tanks at low altitude, fuel almost gone.

 

Are you stepping on rudder or is that crosswind?

 

Firstly, thank you for replying... alot of good reading but also a few followups.

 

- I don't use my rudder that much, so it's probably a mixture of both.

- I do use my AB too much... leaving me low on fuel. You mentioned in your comment about low altitude - is there a rule of thumb about when AB are best used ? such as at a certain altitude etc?

 

The radar search zone is a cone that you can consider attached to your aircraft. It becomes wider the further you go from the aircraft, and thus it is quite narrow when close by.

 

So, here it is very easy to scan over/under the altitude you want, and you don't now if you're scanning the correct altitude range because your TDC is way off in the 30+ nm range.

 

Put the TDC at the target range reported by the AWACS, then adjust elevation to ensure you're bracketing the correct altitudes.

 

I don't set the TDC well enough which is why I am missing the enemy. i'll fix that one :)

 

 

 

Since you know the bandit's heading from you and it's right ahead of you, switch to the 60AZ scan to speed up updates.

Since you are in a tail-chase, you should put the radar into MPRF. Other PRFs can be very short-ranged against tail-chase targets.

At 14nm, you're almost at the range where you should be using AACQ modes.You don't.

 

I generally only use the LRS mode for the radar. I'll give the AACQ mode a go next time i'm in closer range.

 

ECM is ineffective inside 20nm, and will act as a beacon for the bandit's missiles to home in on. Against AI it is completely ineffective, but it shortens the range at which SAMs will engage you.

 

Well that's interesting. I thought that the ECM played a greater role in a dog fight.. i'll stop using that one then

 

 

That's 298 for 40 at 7000, cold :)

 

Yeah well that's just being technical now :) I was flicking between you tube and the forum and rushing... but yes they were 298 for 45 at 7000, cold :)

 

There's no way you'll detect a cold target 40nm away. The best you can hope for is around 22nm in MPRF.

 

You don't know the radar limitations, which is fine; they're not really listed anywhere.

 

HRPF: Good for longest range head-on detection, expect 60-70nm for fighters co-altitude

MPRF: Good for longest range tail-aspect detection, expect 22nm for fighters co-altitude

Interleaved (Default mode): Inbetween the other two

 

I might be missing something else here, am I meant to be switching between modes or is this just how the radar behaves?

 

 

When looking down, cut those ranges by 25-40%.

 

Your radar technique is non-existent :) Turning the radar on and off doesn't give you anything except MAYBE re-centering the antenna.

Learn how to read the altitude coverage of your radar at the TDC range.

 

... and stop kicking the rudder :P

Yes and Yes.

 

Thanks again dude, very insightful as I'm loving the game and about to buy the X55 Rhino HOTAS rather than the Logitech 3d pro O have now - so the games about to be more fun shortly

[jaznit]

There are some very good youtube tutorials on how to use the F-15C radar. Will help you tremendously. Bunyap has some really good one, so does this guy:

 

 

Good luck!

 

DrDetroit

 

Thanks! I've seen this video a while back early on in my learning, but it's funny how you watch it again and once you have a few flight hours in you start to pickup more again

[jaznit]

Quick little guidance from me just to start with. (Multiplayer)

* For best success fir AIM-120C within 10 miles when he is not running.

* Sometimes be patient with your shot. So that bandit clears the mountain ridge so he can not hide behind it anymore. Or when firing AIM-9 wait till he stops flaring. i noticed most people start firing AIM-9 when you start flaring. Like they are suddenly reminded they have IR missiles.

* Be aggresisve but no to aggressive. Know when to run and when to stay. Be prepared for everything so keep an eye out of the cockpit. But don't be to careful. being to careful kills you quicker than being to aggressive. At least in my experience.

* Try not to get into a WVR fight with FUEL TANKS unless you know what you are doing. Always drop them in dogfights.

 

Thanks mate!

 

Enjoy your flight man... Prepare for a lot of frustration. But also for fights that make your adrenaline rush trough your body and leave you with your hands shaking after the fight.

I will be waiting for you... And we have no merci. But dont worry... I'm make way to much stupid mistakes and i am way to aggressive.

 

If you play through Steam add me as jaznit and i'll make sure I see you around :)

[GGTharos]

Firstly, thank you for replying... alot of good reading but also a few followups.

 

- I don't use my rudder that much, so it's probably a mixture of both.

- I do use my AB too much... leaving me low on fuel. You mentioned in your comment about low altitude - is there a rule of thumb about when AB are best used ? such as at a certain altitude etc?

 

Use afterburner as required, but realize that you get a 5x increase in fuel flow. You burn more fuel like them you do up high as well, which is why aircraft tend to fly high.

Tanks add drag, so when they're empty punch then off - they cost you a lot of fuel once empty.

Realize that you have throttle settings other than stage 5AB :). Plan for your fuel consumption ahead of time and set the bingo bug to something that makes more sense than 'I'm out of fuel'. :-)

 

Well that's interesting. I thought that the ECM played a greater role in a dog fight.. i'll stop using that one then

 

It should be but it isn't modeled like that in this game.

 

Yeah well that's just being technical now :) I was flicking between you tube and the forum and rushing... but yes they were 298 for 45 at 7000, cold :)

 

Speaking the same language accurately is very important :-)

 

I might be missing something else here, am I meant to be switching between modes or is this just how the radar behaves?

 

The behavior more it less files real radar physics yes, and you have to adjust your PRF to match the situation you're in.

[jaznit]

Realize that you have throttle settings other than stage 5AB :)

There isn't any other setting is there? lol

[Oceandar]

For F-15 speed is the key and don't get merge with the Su or MiG as long as you can unless you have support or you're sure you can win the fight. They're nasty opponent WVR. Beware of the ET, don't forget to drop flare when you think you're within ET range.

 

Good luck

 

Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato

[chrisreb]

Guys sorry to bump your thread but unable to get any up top date answers. Returning to this after a few years away from previous version and played combat sims for many years.. However whilst I can see contacts on F-15 radar I cannot bug them at all as I used to. All I get is a brief flash of a red box and nothing. Can you help?

 

Thanks

[jaznit]

Would love to help, but not sure what's happening.

 

can you post a real short video?

[DarkFire]

Guys sorry to bump your thread but unable to get any up top date answers. Returning to this after a few years away from previous version and played combat sims for many years.. However whilst I can see contacts on F-15 radar I cannot bug them at all as I used to. All I get is a brief flash of a red box and nothing. Can you help?

 

Thanks

 

Where does the red box appear? I ask because that sounds like it may be "game avionics" setting rather than realistic. I think under the game option you should get instant and permanent lock, whereas realistically lock can be dropped if the target enters the doppler notch, i.e. it's relative velocity to you is lower than the minimum setting under which the radar will filter out the contact thinking it's ground clutter, a car or birds etc.

[chrisreb]

Yes I had dropped back to game avionics for a bit whilst I got back up to speed. On further investigation switching to TWS and trying you get a lock but fairly short range. May switch up to realistic avionics and try again

[DarkFire]

Yes I had dropped back to game avionics for a bit whilst I got back up to speed. On further investigation switching to TWS and trying you get a lock but fairly short range. May switch up to realistic avionics and try again

 

No harm in using the game level avionics while you're still learning the plane. Not sure how the TWS behaves in game mode - maybe it has some sort of minimum lock range?

[blkspade]

It should be noted that GG's info on ECM vs AI is inaccurate. It works on AI the same as players up to burn through range. They won't fire at the usual Rmax. The only exception I have seen to this is against the MiG-31. That may be tied to an apparent catch where it doesn't seem to work if activated while already inside of Rmax (AI will always initiate at Rmax), but still outside of burn through. Which is also the case for SAMs.

[SinusoidDelta]

There isn't any other setting is there? lol

There are 5 AB stages. Watch the nozzle position indicator beneath the fuel flow gauges as you advance the throttle. Be sure to take note of the drastic change in fuel flow at each stage. :)

[Beamscanner]

Question 1

I find a few times the enemy doesn't come up in my radar in LRS mode. You can see in the below clip at the 17:43 mark my AWACS confirms that the enemy is heading 325, 14 miles out and altitude of 7000 - so he should be right in front of me and within radar range but it's not being picked up on the LRS. LRS is set to 40 and height range is ok but still not picking it up.

 

Do you mean the target you had at the 7 minute mark..? AWACS calls bandit at 235 for 14, at 7000, Hot.

 

You lost him because you turned off your radar.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Beamscanner