The Five Maneuvers That Were Prohibited In The F-14 Tomcat

[KesMonkey]

Another interesting read from Foxtrot Alpha: http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-five-maneuvers-that-were-prohibited-in-the-f-14-tom-1757179036

[Frisco1522]

Another interesting read from Foxtrot Alpha: http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-five-maneuvers-that-were-prohibited-in-the-f-14-tom-1757179036

 

Awesome! Now I know what to do when we get our F-14! :joystick::pilotfly:

 

Frisco1522

[Scoggs]

Awesome! Now I know what to do when we get our F-14! :joystick::pilotfly:

 

Frisco1522

 

My thoughts exactly. After the initial flight and landing I definitely plan to put her into a flat spin.

[VIKBELL]

So no multiple barrel rolls wow that tactic I use a lot, also does that kill off the rolling scissors also....:cry:

[Donut]

I found this interesting:

 

#5: No rolling maneuvers with angle of bank change greater than 360 degrees

 

If I understand this correctly, you can safely perform only one full roll (360 degrees) at a time or risk losing control. So let me offer up some questions....

 

After the F-14 performs a full 360 degree roll, how long would it have to stay in stable flight before being able to perform another roll?

 

If the F-14 performs a full 360 degree roll to the right, can it then immediately perform a full 360 degree roll to the left or would there still be a risk of losing control?

[King_Hrothgar]

The comments section is just as good as the article:

 

As much as we loved Tomcats when they were airborne and protecting us, I still chuckle at the thought of sitting in my carrier group admiral’s daily brief and have CAGMO go on and on and on about how many Tomcats were broken and the new and exotic ways in which they were breaking.

 

Fast forward almost 15 years and it’s about the same for F/A-18Cs today.

 

:lol:

[Nerd1000]

I found this interesting:

 

#5: No rolling maneuvers with angle of bank change greater than 360 degrees

 

If I understand this correctly, you can safely perform only one full roll (360 degrees) at a time or risk losing control. So let me offer up some questions....

 

After the F-14 performs a full 360 degree roll, how long would it have to stay in stable flight before being able to perform another roll?

 

I imagine you'd need to wait until the ball on the turn and slip indicator returned to the centre.

[BlackLion213]

The comments section is just as good as the article:

 

 

 

:lol:

 

Nice find, I hadn't noticed that. :D

 

The F-14 was a bit of a maintenance nightmare, even when new. But the carrier environment is really not conducive to a long airframe life.

 

Between catshots, arrested landings, and constant salt exposure - nothing seems to withstand that well.

 

I remember talking to a S-3 pilot at the Miramar airshow in 2005 (shortly before it was retired) and the pilot said that every catshot resulted on some form of failure (mostly electronics). He was convinced that it was time for them to go. Now it seems that plastic and digital Hornet is suffering the same fate.

 

I still don't know how VF-154 managed to have the best airframe availability of their cruise back in 2003 (some of their airframes were almost 30 years old).

 

So no multiple barrel rolls wow that tactic I use a lot, also does that kill off the rolling scissors also....:cry:

 

Rolling scissors should be fine, I think they are mostly referring to aileron rolls. Adding pitch to the maneuver changes the equation a bit and, as the article mentions, the same thing is actually prohibited in the Super Hornet as well. There isn't much tactical value to a sustained aileron roll, the effective mass (from a target/taking hits standpoint) is static. There probably is a risk-benefit assessment when deciding what maneuvers to discourage/prohibit and there isn't much tactical value to sustained aileron rolls.

 

-Nick

Edited February 6, 2016 by BlackLion213

[Zilch]

If that last gif is playing in real time, the F-14's roll rate was batshit crazy.

[Danneskjold]

Personally I found the article extremely needless. #'s 1, 2, 3, and 4 are pretty much standard on every single jet out there. It's kind of like writing an article on how you are "Prohibited from crashing in the ground" when in your tomcat...

[Home Fries]

If that last gif is playing in real time, the F-14's roll rate was batshit crazy.

With the wings swept back, the roll rate is damn good. I saw one at Fallon take off (did a high performance take off so his wings were already swept back when he hit the opposing numbers), then roll instantly to knife edge. Certainly not in accordance with NATOPS, but it looked damn cool! :D

[turkeydriver]

The turkey had a decent instantaneous roll rate at speed- but at corner speed its roll rate is lower than most other fighters out there. If the wings were swept already at the end of the runway they had to have been manually swept aft- no way he's hitting .8 Mach by the end of the runway unless maybe he hijacked a pair of JSF F135 motors. Wish I could have seen it, would have been awesome.

[Donut]

With the wings swept back, the roll rate is damn good. I saw one at Fallon take off (did a high performance take off so his wings were already swept back when he hit the opposing numbers), then roll instantly to knife edge. Certainly not in accordance with NATOPS, but it looked damn cool! :D

 

I am reading a book called "The Last top Gun", which describes a similar takeoff. It is called the Fightertown low transition takeoff and was done at Miramar. Using zone five afterburner, the pilot lifts off the runway, immediately raises the landing gear, noses over and accelerates only a few feet off the ground. Reaching the end of the runway, the Tomcat is pulled sharply upwards in a 5 g climb, rolled sharply 30 degrees to the right while the wings are manually swept back, and then levels off at 1,200 feet.

 

After I familiarize myself with the Tomcat, I can sure see myself trying this takeoff procedure!

[Frisco1522]

I wonder what the take-off speed would be with the wings in the folded position?

Probably never tested, I bet, but definitely prohibited!

 

Frisco1522

[Tirak]

I wonder what the take-off speed would be with the wings in the folded position?

Probably never tested, I bet, but definitely prohibited!

 

Frisco1522

 

The plane was tested with wings in full sweep doing carrier landings, I'm positive they've done full sweep take off testing too.

[Hummingbird]

The plane was tested with wings in full sweep doing carrier landings, I'm positive they've done full sweep take off testing too.

 

That would've been on the mainland then, not on a carrier, as there would be no need to risk an aircraft for such a test when there is no chance of any Tomcat taking off from a CV with wings fully swept in operational service anyway.

 

Landing with fully swept wings however was an operational possibility incase of an inflight problem with the wing sweep mechanism, thus they tested the emergency scenario of having to land with either both or one of the wings fully swept, and the F-14 was found capable of completing a landing that way.

[turkeydriver]

The plane was tested with wings in full sweep doing carrier landings, I'm positive they've done full sweep take off testing too.

 

Why? You would never launch a jet with a downing discrepancy like that. Sure it could take off- it would be a very long very high speed take off like a Mirage III.

[Tirak]

That would've been on the mainland then, not on a carrier, as there would be no need to risk an aircraft for such a test when there is no chance of any Tomcat taking off from a CV with wings fully swept in operational service anyway.

 

Landing with fully swept wings however was an operational possibility incase of an inflight problem with the wing sweep mechanism, thus they tested the emergency scenario of having to land with either both or one of the wings fully swept, and the F-14 was found capable of completing a landing that way.

 

You misunderstand me, I'm not saying they tested full sweep takeoffs from carriers, only that they no doubt would have performed full sweep takeoff testing, where is irrelevant, but I cannot imagine that a test of an F-14 taking off at full sweep must have been performed at some point, whether from a land based runway or a carrier, it's testing that I cannot imagine not being performed.

[BlackLion213]

You misunderstand me, I'm not saying they tested full sweep takeoffs from carriers, only that they no doubt would have performed full sweep takeoff testing, where is irrelevant, but I cannot imagine that a test of an F-14 taking off at full sweep must have been performed at some point, whether from a land based runway or a carrier, it's testing that I cannot imagine not being performed.

 

Yes, I'm quite sure that it happened (likely at Pax River) since there were very specific approach speeds quoted for different degrees of wing sweep and with/without flaps in those configurations. Back in the early 1970s, those things were generally sorted out by direct testing (IIRC).

 

Pax River has an area set-up with catapults and arresting gear for just this type of activity.

 

Pax River catapult test, notice this "Carrier" has grass ;):

 

 

 

-Nick

[Hummingbird]

Tirak,

 

I'm sure they tested it on land, but I'm also sure they didn't test it on a carrier - and that because an F-14 taking off from a carrier with wings fully swept back would plummit straight into the ocean :D

 

Keep in mind that neither the flaps nor slats could be deployed at full sweep, they were limited to a maximum of ~50 deg sweep :)

[Hummingbird]

Yes, I'm quite sure that it happened (likely at Pax River) since there were very specific approach speeds quoted for different degrees of wing sweep and with/without flaps in those configurations. Back in the early 1970s, those things were generally sorted out by direct testing (IIRC).

 

Pax River has an area set-up with catapults and arresting gear for just this type of activity.

 

Pax River catapult test, notice this "Carrier" has grass ;):

 

 

 

-Nick

 

Full sweep landings were definitely tested, also on real life carriers, and successfully so. But full sweep take off tests I'm sure were limited to places such as Pax River :)

[Shaman]

That was good read. Let's see if LN can capture these events in their sim.

[Sideswipe]

If that last gif is playing in real time, the F-14's roll rate was batshit crazy.

 

Pretty sure it is. I actually just watched a youtube video where there is a similar maneuver and it's damn quick.

 

[ame]

[/ame]

 

Around the 6:50 mark.