Gunsight / Aiming Techniques

[ekg]

What sort of technique do you use when aiming? I set my wingspan, set my distance to around 100m on and turn on the gyro for my gunsight. I usually have bad aim even when shooting at rear of opponent. Against AI I notice that leading the gunsight usually gets me more hits (usually when merging).

[Stuge]

Forget the gyro sight, it is not reactive enough to hit evasive targets. Use fixed gun sight, shoot down a lot of planes, and you will start feeling the correct lead in different situations (applies to all WWII aircraft).

 

Unless you have godly aim it is good to make the first burst very short, just to test if the lead is correct, and only then shoot a longer burst. Otherwise it's spray'n'pray and out of ammo :)

 

Also, closer is always better for accuracy. You can't be too close when you fire, let the target fill your gunsight! That was Erich Hartmann's approach style to his fights also!

[ekg]

Interesting... did real pilots use the gyro at all then?

[Stuge]

Yeah I think the gyro was used in the planes that had it, but I think most aircraft of WWII didn't have a gyro sight. Surely it was extra useful for inexperienced pilots who had trouble calculating lead otherwise.

 

You can use the gyro for targets that are not so extremely evasive. Like against bombers, in a tailchase, or against a fighter in a shallow turn. But if the target knows it is getting shot at, and is doing hard evasive maneuvers, the gyro just can't keep up. Then you have to use the fixed sight :)

 

Personally I don't like the gyro sights too much, and only use them in specific situations.

[MAD-MM]

The gyro works really prober compare to the P-51, only draw backs at the moment compare to the P-51 is missing bullet powder trail to indicate where the bullets are flying and the small gun sight with the not fixed cockpit bar is also not very helpful.

This mean you go really fast outside of the gyro maximal angel for the sight, but in between it works proper.

And all Nations introduce the gyro sight in war and afterwards, test have shown its increase the hits on target, but is personal opinion I like the gyro gun sight.

[King Cobra]

My understanding was Hartman would fill his whole view with the enemy wingspan not just the sight, there were other German aces that did opposite, but the gyro is not to calculate distance it just calculates inpact in correlation to the change of direction from your aircraft.

[BSS_Sniper]

If you guys are having problems using your gyro, you need to use it more. There's nothing wrong with not using it, however, the gyro works just fine.

[ekg]

If you guys are having problems using your gyro, you need to use it more. There's nothing wrong with not using it, however, the gyro works just fine.

 

You still have to lead with your gyro though, right? It doesn't give you a firing solution unlike modern planes with radar lock.

[Stuge]

You still have to lead with your gyro though, right? It doesn't give you a firing solution unlike modern planes with radar lock.

 

Oh it does, that's the whole point of the gyro sight! You set the target wingspan, then adjust the range to fit the target inside the pipper, aim so the pipper is right on target, and pull the trigger!

 

The problems with gyro sight are a) your range estimation can easily be a bit wrong because you do it visually, resulting in wrong lead. b) you need a stable target. if the target is constantly rolling and switching directions the gyro reacts too slow and cannot calculate proper lead.

[KLR Rico]

If we're thinking the same thing, then yes.

 

Modern planes will show you where the bullets will hit if you pull the trigger now. Gyros will show you where the bullets will hit if you had fired some number of seconds prior.

 

To use the gyro you have to keep your target in the sight for a couple seconds before pulling the trigger.

[ekg]

To use the gyro you have to keep your target in the sight for a couple seconds before pulling the trigger.

 

Would that still be true in a turn fight or an evasive target in a dog fight? I think you'd have to lead even with gyro.

[ekg]

Oh it does, that's the whole point of the gyro sight! You set the target wingspan, then adjust the range to fit the target inside the pipper, aim so the pipper is right on target, and pull the trigger!

 

The problems with gyro sight are a) your range estimation can easily be a bit wrong because you do it visually, resulting in wrong lead. b) you need a stable target. if the target is constantly rolling and switching directions the gyro reacts too slow and cannot calculate proper lead.

 

If the target is evasive and the gyro gunsight over the target will result in a miss I wouldn't call it a firing solution.

[KLR Rico]

If the turn is steady state then you bring the gyro sight over the target for a couple seconds then fire. Evasive, not so much, because you never have the steady state you need. In that case all you can really do is wait it out for a better shot, or try to lead and take your chances with a potshot.

 

You can learn to lead the gyro sight and take shots without using the stabilized method, but if you want it to work as it's supposed to, you need to be steady.

 

And yes, the modern ccip sights are much better because you can hit your target without the sight ever really settling in on it. It's easy enough aim in front of a target and wait for them to pass under your sight.

[golani79]

The problems with gyro sight are a) your range estimation can easily be a bit wrong because you do it visually, resulting in wrong lead.

 

Wouldn´t you know the exact distance by setting it for example to 200m and if the plane fits into the pipper it´s away set distance?

[ekg]

If the turn is steady state then you bring the gyro sight over the target for a couple seconds then fire. Evasive, not so much, because you never have the steady state you need. In that case all you can really do is wait it out for a better shot, or try to lead and take your chances with a potshot.

 

You can learn to lead the gyro sight and take shots without using the stabilized method, but if you want it to work as it's supposed to, you need to be steady.

 

And yes, the modern ccip sights are much better because you can hit your target without the sight ever really settling in on it. It's easy enough aim in front of a target and wait for them to pass under your sight.

 

This leads me to wonder what is the speed of the rounds coming off the Dora? That would likely give a good indication for the minimum to wait before firing when in a "steady" on the bandit's tail.

[Stuge]

One way to use the gyro sight is to set it to minimum possible range, then fly close enough so the target fills the pipper completely. This way the required "steady state" time is minimal, and accuracy is good!

 

I use this technique with Mig-15, I find it gives best accuracy for the situation where the cannon is powerful (only a few hits are required) but ammo is very limited so missing a lot is not good :)

 

Also in Mig-21 this is the only way to use the gyro sight. You cannot adjust the range setting, it is at a fixed range.

[KLR Rico]

^ This is good.

 

While reading some of the stories from the great aces, I see that getting in close was often a key element.