A matter of degrees

[Damocles]

While there are many advantages to using VR, checking six isn't one of them. I still think it is more realistic than other ways, TrackIR, hat switch etc, but still not perfect.

 

TrackIR uses scaling to translate a few degrees movement in to large changes of view, however doing this with VR might have adverse effects. Such large scale changes however aren't really needed and maybe, just adding 1 degree per 10 degree moved initially and 2 degrees per 10 moved, say from 50 degrees, might help a little without feeling unnatural, or notable,and result in an extra 20 degrees of vision and a more realistic checking six ?

 

Can this be done by ED, or is it hard wired in the HMD ?

[Justin Case]

I think this would cause severe nausea.

[Damocles]

I think this would cause severe nausea.

 

Possibly.

 

Then again, maybe subtlety is the key and not overdoing it. It might be worth experimenting to see if adding several degrees progressively might does have any unfortunate side effects.

[Bourrinopathe]

They should advertise the workout as a feature ;)

 

I don't own a VR but the way I see it, you can't rotate your eyeballs as much as you will in real life to check your six. You turn your head.

 

Having a way to amplify the max rotation to watch behind you should be interesting. I'm curious how many games/simulation use that check six behavior.

[Fab]

They should advertise the workout as a feature ;)

 

I don't own a VR but the way I see it, you can't rotate your eyeballs as much as you will in real life to check your six. You turn your head.

 

Having a way to amplify the max rotation to watch behind you should be interesting. I'm curious how many games/simulation use that check six behavior.

 

I do, after having used DK2 for 1 month, I made handels to help me twich, for looking 6. Before my neck hurt all the time.....

 

It give you that "Top Gun" fell, trying to see the bandit at 6.

[hansangb]

This is one area where VR gets a bum rap. "It's too RL, make it easier please"

 

I also wonder how easy it is to find targets in real life. It's not like you can see a truck miles out in RL, right? I'm talking visual cues...not TGP and the like.

[Vivoune]

Hi Damocles, what you've just described is one of my highlights in VR, to see behind yourself you need to get physical.

 

I've been doing a fair bit of ACM with squad mates in VR and it is an awesome core workout. In a soon to be released video I'll show you how having a real fighter windscreen bow with grab handles to assist with twisting around is not only helpful but exactly what real combat pilots do.

You can fully twist and see behind if you grab hold of something while flying with one hand.

I've Just finished making Hornet grab handles and have placed them exactly where I see them in the virtual pit so grabbing them accurately is easy.

After a few minutes of ACM I'm really feeling it in terms of twisting and the roller coaster visual ride. It's fantastic and that's not even being strapped to a seat with 7 Gs squashing you down.

 

1 : 1 head tracking and the energy it requires is one of my favourite unforeseen benefits of Virtual Reality.

 

Interesting, that must feel so immersive grabbing a handle in-game and having it match with the real life handle! I'm personally doing a rather sedentary job and don't always have time to exercise as much as I want to, I couldn't be more happy to break a sweat and shape up a bit while enjoying VR and DCS.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Vivoune

[hansangb]

Vivoune,

One word: VariDesk

 

It's awesome!

[Damocles]

Hi Damocles, what you've just described is one of my highlights in VR, to see behind yourself you need to get physical.

 

I've been doing a fair bit of ACM with squad mates in VR and it is an awesome core workout. In a soon to be released video I'll show you how having a real fighter windscreen bow with grab handles to assist with twisting around is not only helpful but exactly what real combat pilots do.

You can fully twist and see behind if you grab hold of something while flying with one hand.

I've Just finished making Hornet grab handles and have placed them exactly where I see them in the virtual pit so grabbing them accurately is easy.

After a few minutes of ACM I'm really feeling it in terms of twisting and the roller coaster visual ride. It's fantastic and that's not even being strapped to a seat with 7 Gs squashing you down.

 

1 : 1 head tracking and the energy it requires is one of my favourite unforeseen benefits of Virtual Reality.

 

Nice idea of grab handles, but I suspect it's just one more real thing you can't actually see when trying to grab it. If the handles line up on screen then perfect but it's already a job to remember VR things don't exist, or in a different position in reality.

 

Even with grab handles, it's still a restriction. I'm not the youngest fella any more, but still consider myself reasonably fit and flexible, I do enjoy the physicality of VR but if I look around I can reasonable look 90 degrees L/R (not moving my eyes), by twisting my torso I can add maybe another 20 degrees either way. In real life though I can add a further 70-90 degrees with my eyes and peripheral vision.

 

If the Rift/Vive does 110 deg then looking as far back as I can and twisting my torso I can only get, at most 165 deg (90 deg head turn + 20 deg torso twist + 55 deg FOV ) adding 1 or 2 degrees per 10 degrees might not be noticeable, body position wise, and might not throw the vestibuler system out anymore than it already does (don't like going backwards in helicopters).

[Justin Case]

Uhm...rotating chairs maybe?

[Fab]

Rotating chairs ....

 

1. it makes you sick...

2. it runies the feeling of beeing inside the plane...

[Fab]

Please dont make it easy to look over shoulder, like with the TrackIr. It will totaly ruin the feeling of beeing in a plane. The whole point with VR, is you need to be in the room vitural and move within those boundaries...

 

I have spoken to fighter pilots, and some of them need to move there hole body in the seat, to check 6. I dont want my VR experince to become some PS4 game.....

[Chivas]

Checking six in VR is the biggest problem for old farts, trying to simulate the flexibility of a 19 year old fighter pilot.

[Damocles]

Please dont make it easy to look over shoulder, like with the TrackIr. It will totaly ruin the feeling of beeing in a plane. The whole point with VR, is you need to be in the room vitural and move within those boundaries...

 

I dont want my VR experince to become some PS4 game.....

 

That's not the suggestion at all.

 

The idea is to cancel out the hardware imposed restrictions and increase FOV to conform with real life expectations. If I sit in a chair and look behind me, without the HMD, I can see about 200 degrees .Much of that last 40 degrees is increasingly periferal vision, but it does exist. Not in a HMD though.

 

It might even work to our advantage in adding realism. The larger the "G's" pulled the smaller the multiplier, if any, and thus a more restricted FOV.

[DerekSpeare]

Making the rotational relationship between head and view anything other than one to one would cause discomfort and induce nausea in many users. Doing that would be absurd and negate one of the benefits of using a VR device.

[Damocles]

Making the rotational relationship between head and view anything other than one to one would cause discomfort and induce nausea in many users. Doing that would be absurd and negate one of the benefits of using a VR device.

 

I'm not convinced it's quite so cut and dried as you suggest, unless you have evidence to the contrary ?

 

Let me explain.

 

When yo look around in real life your head position and view are not one and the same. Why not, I hear you ask ? Because your eyeballs also move, adding possibly another 30-40 degrees, either side, to your range. Consider the adding of 1 or 2 degrees per 10 degrees, for example, as outlined in an earlier post, as mimicking moving your eyes, cumulatively imperceptible, but not unnatural. To much and I agree it could be barf inducing but if kept within real life expectations then I wonder if it really would be any more problematic than symptoms that might be felt, normally. I think uncommanded fluctuation, as in attempted hovering in a helecopter, and driving around hilly roads in Project Cars far more problematic.

 

To recap, I don't think view angle and relative head position need to line up perfectly, it can be played around with and wouldn't neccesarily be as obvious as you try to claim.

 

I certainly think it would be worth a little experimentation, I can't imagine it would be that difficult to try out . As I mentioned earlier it might even be advantageous in that the added degrees can be limited or nullified when pulling G's, mimicking the difficulty of looking around in that real world situation.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Damocles

[SharpeXB]

Give it a try... Just spread some plastic sheet on the floor of your game room :puke:

[Damocles]

Making the rotational relationship between head and view anything other than one to one would cause discomfort and induce nausea in many users. Doing that would be absurd and negate one of the benefits of using a VR device.

 

 

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting an accelerating view, as in TrackIR (although I suppose I am but only in as much as adding a couple of degrees rather than a speed multiplier) yes, that would probably make you green about the gills fairly quickly.

 

The question is, if you moved your head 10 degrees but your view changed 11 degrees (10 deg head, 1 deg simulated eyes), would you notice ?

 

If you moved your head 20 deg but your view changed 22 deg (head 20 deg, 2 deg simulated eye travel), would you notice ?

 

How about if you moved your head 100 deg but your view changed 116 deg (head 100, simulated eye travel 16 deg (1 deg for the first 40 and 2 deg for the following decades)), would you notice ?

 

The other option might be just to press a button so that it artificially pans your view further back once you reach your limit but that sounds even more horrible.

 

The question is, do we accept the limitations that we have now or do we try and think a little creatively, even if every avenue, along the way, doesn't necessarily lead to where we want to go ?

[cichlidfan]

Checking six in VR is the biggest problem for old farts, trying to simulate the flexibility of a 19 year old fighter pilot.

 

Simming isn't the only area where I can't simulate the abilities of a 19yo. :P