Radar Warning System

[blast]

Hi everyone,

 

I read all the manual of the M2000 and got several hours of flying now, but I still cannot figure out everything about the warning system sounds and symbols.

 

1. Where can I find a full explanation of this warning system?

 

2. It looks like that only fox3 enemy missiles (AIM120 for example) are detected by the warning system when they are launched. Is that normal we can't see fox1 missile launch? (im pretty sure it is normal but i want to make sure Im not missing something)

 

3. Do we have a warning when a fox2 enemy missile is launched? If not, is it going to be developed in the future?

 

Thanks for your answers, and fly safe :pilotfly:

[Azrayen]

Hi blast

 

1. Not available at this time; you can refer to F-15C manual, but there are a few differences.

 

2. Indeed. No.

 

3. No. Yes (but it won't be the RWR anymore, as there is no radar on a Fox2).

[blast]

great, ty for your answers

[ZHeN]

2. Indeed. No.

so you're saying RWR shouldn't sound any alarm when FOX1 is fired at me?

[jojo]

Indeed: we see only Fox 3

No: It's not normal we don't see Fox 1 launches.

:smartass:

[blast]

Indeed: we see only Fox 3

No: It's not normal we don't see Fox 1 launches.

:smartass:

 

Jojo, do you mean that we are supposed to get an alarm when an enemy fox 1 missile is launched ? If yes, is it going to be implemented?

I would think it is normal to not have any warning when an enemy fox1 missile is launched. For these missile the guidance is only made by the radar inside the plane and not by the missile itself.

Or may be it would be the same system which will detect fox2 (infrared) missiles? :helpsmilie:

[Azrayen]

so you're saying RWR shouldn't sound any alarm when FOX1 is fired at me?

I'm absolutely not saying that.

Jojo got it right: there were 2 sentences in blast's post, I answered sequentially each of them.

[Azrayen]

I would think it is normal to not have any warning when an enemy fox1 missile is launched.

Did you ever try an FC fighter? If yes have you been fired at by an enemy using Fox 1s?

 

For these missile the guidance is only made by the radar inside the plane and not by the missile itself.

This is not accurate. The emitter is the aircraft's radar, but the radar receipter is on the missile.

If all guidance was made by the shooter, and none by the missile, you would have a "teleguided" or "command guidance" missile (such as the SA-2 SAM for example), but not a "Fox 1" (SARH).

NB: this is not the reason why Fox1s should trigger a RWR alarm. You're right to think the missile seeker (passive radar antenna/receipter) cannot be detected by the RWR. But there are other ways ;)

 

Or may be it would be the same system which will detect fox2 (infrared) missiles? :helpsmilie:

A MLWS or MAWS (that is the system you refer to) doesn't care of the guidance type (on the nose of the missile). Indeed it "sees" the exhaust plume of the missile engine (on the rear).

The infrared seeker of a Fox2 cannot be detected per se (it's purely passive).

[jojo]

RWR only detects radar signal and analyses them to give you proper warning.

 

Usually, SARH systems (SAM & AA Fox 1) are known to change their signal for guidance purpose. So it should be possible to get launch warning.

 

Fox 3 is more complicated.

Sure thing is that the RWR can detect the missile gone active. But it's late.

What would be more interesting would be to detect the launch. For that you would need the launching aircraft's radar to change it's signal, or produce a signal detectable by the RWR.

That kind of data is classified.

So maybe Fox 3 launch detection, maybe not. It's better to stick to DCS/ FC standard here.

 

Fox 2 can be launched without radar. No warning signal.

To detect them 2 technology exist:

- active short range radar (millimeter eave length). It detects the incoming missile. That kind of system can be found on modern helicopters and the Typhoon.

- missile launch warning system (MLWS). It usually uses electro-optical technology (IR and/ or UV detrction) to spot the missile's launch. It can track it as long as engine is burning.

 

A MLWS has been produced for Mirage 2000 family. There are provisions for it in ECM system and it's called DDM or D²M.

It's an IR sensor (called SAMIR) fitted to rear of Magic 2 rails on Mirage and top of the fin on Rafale.

 

That D²M is acknowledged by reliable open sources and pictures to have been fitted to ground attack variants (Mirage 2000D & 2000N).

 

Nothing found to support it was adapted to air defense variants (Mirage 2000C & 2000-5).

So it's not a sensor of Mirage 2000C.

 

It's intended use was to spot MANPADS.

 

It has been said by Zeus it may be added in later future though...wait & see.

[amalahama]

If it was not adopted in the M2000C I would rather leave MLWS out.

 

Regards!

[WinterH]

If it was not adopted in the M2000C I would rather leave MLWS out.

 

Regards!

 

%100 +

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

As much as I would like to see it if the C variant did not use it then it would be best to keep the aircraft as realistic as possible and omit the sensor. You just need to keep your eyes open. Lol

 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[Zeus67]

To be honest, based on all the info that I've been given on the M2D (the name for the MLWS) is that the aircraft was designed to use it. That is why there is as switch for it in the cockpit. Very likely the system was not ready when the M-2000C came out and later when the M2D was ready it was installed only in the M-2000D due to budgetary reasons. After all the D is the bomber version and it is the one that is expected to get close and personal with ground defenses, specially with MANPADS.

[mattebubben]

To be honest, based on all the info that I've been given on the M2D (the name for the MLWS) is that the aircraft was designed to use it. That is why there is as switch for it in the cockpit. Very likely the system was not ready when the M-2000C came out and later when the M2D was ready it was installed only in the M-2000D due to budgetary reasons. After all the D is the bomber version and it is the one that is expected to get close and personal with ground defenses, specially with MANPADS.

 

Are you guys intending to add a Radar Launch warning to the RWR (not talking about MLWS but just a normal SARH Launch warning)

 

Either in a Complex more realistic form or in the Simplistic way that the FC3 aircraft use.

 

Since while you can survive without this it would go along way towards making the M2000 more equal to the other fighters in the game and it would take away one significant disadvantage the M2000 has currently

in dcs.

[Zeus67]

Are you guys intending to add a Radar Launch warning to the RWR (not talking about MLWS but just a normal SARH Launch warning)

 

Either in a Complex more realistic form or in the Simplistic way that the FC3 aircraft use.

 

Since while you can survive without this it would go along way towards making the M2000 more equal to the other fighters in the game and it would take away one significant disadvantage the M2000 has currently

in dcs.

 

We'll see. I need to study this first, but it will have to wait for the INS.

[Svend_Dellepude]

Are you guys intending to add a Radar Launch warning to the RWR (not talking about MLWS but just a normal SARH Launch warning)

 

Either in a Complex more realistic form or in the Simplistic way that the FC3 aircraft use.

 

Since while you can survive without this it would go along way towards making the M2000 more equal to the other fighters in the game and it would take away one significant disadvantage the M2000 has currently

in dcs.

 

If locked, assume launch.

I kinda like the way it is. Took me some time to get used to though.

[mattebubben]

If locked, assume launch.

I kinda like the way it is. Took me some time to get used to though.

 

Mostly i just want it to be even.

 

So if the FC3 fighters also had no Launch warning there would be no problem.

 

But with the FC3 fighters having working RWR launch warning and the mirage 2000 not having it it kinda skews it a bit.

(Since they all should have similar systems)

 

And hampers the Mirage 2000 especially in head on or 1vs1 combat.

 

Its not game breaking but it does change the way you have to fly her and in some ways it makes her less effective.

 

As you need to be more paranoid thus preventing you from taking alot of shots or chances thus preventing you from getting some kills you would have been able to get in a different aircraft.

Edited June 12, 2016 by mattebubben

[The Legman]

Pick one:

 

- Realism

 

- Gameplay balance

 

The second doesn't belong to a simulator.

[Schmidtfire]

You go to war against FC3 aircraft, you're almost always at a disadvantage in an MP fragfest :doh: Launch warning would be great, but I put realism first. The MiG21 drivers has even bigger problems... Starting balancing stuff for mp would in the long run mean the end of S in DCS. However, if there is some kind of warning IRL, like a change in lock-tone intensity. I am all for it.

[jojo]

Pick one:

 

- Realism

 

- Gameplay balance

 

The second doesn't belong to a simulator.

 

Fox 1 launch warning is realistic.

A lot of radar would change their signal for SARH guidance purpose.

[Zeus67]

Pick one:

 

- Realism

 

- Gameplay balance

 

The second doesn't belong to a simulator.

 

Please no this issue again. Nobody is balancing anything so give it a rest.

[The Legman]

Sure Zeus not specifically for you guys, but for the people that doesn't stop complaining because they want to be "better" in multiplayer.

 

It is hard for a M2k to beat FC3 modules, but that doesn't mean that the plane has to be changed.

[Davee]

Regrettably but understandable, there is a difference between the FC3 aircraft and the new advanced aircraft coming off the line that can only be neutralized by mission designers and server admins at this time. Not in aircraft feature adjustment. (IMHO) Eventually, conversion of old to new will resolve some of the issues but not resolve the issue of separate generation aircraft in the same mission. Again, mission designer issues.

 

It's the pilot - not the aircraft.

[jojo]

Fox 1 launch warning is realistic.

A lot of radar would change their signal for SARH guidance purpose.

 

Speaking about that...the debate is still raging on 10 years later

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=12959

:smartass:

[Svend_Dellepude]

Speaking about that...the debate is still raging on 10 years later

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=12959

:smartass:

 

...and probably will for another ten. It would be much easier if the ppl that actually knows about this stuff would just tell us what is going on, wouldn't it..? :)