Su-27S vs Mirage 2000C

[Belphe]

I had another one of my "guns-only" sessions in a Su-27 last night with the dogfight commencing after the planes pass each other by in opposite directions. This time I decided to try my luck against the Mirage 2000C and I must admit it is an incredibly agile aircraft. Yes, my Sukhoi was only facing AI but the same AI that couldn't touch me in an F-16C was making me sweat flying the Mirage! To be honest I got shot down quite a few times and so far found no means to consistently gain advantage over the French fighter. Salut! :)

 

What are your thoughts on this? Would the Sukhoi really get his a$$ kicked in a hypothetical dogfight against this plane?

[Svend_Dellepude]

I take out the Mirage AI pretty easy in the F-15 so i imagine you can do the same in the SU-27 once you find the ''trick''.

IMO and without hard facts to back it up SU-27 should win over M2K everytime.

[Belphe]

What's the "trick"? :)

[mattebubben]

I take out the Mirage AI pretty easy in the F-15 so i imagine you can do the same in the SU-27 once you find the ''trick''.

IMO and without hard facts to back it up SU-27 should win over M2K everytime.

 

But do you take the mirage 2000 out easy in a guns only dogfight?

 

Or in general? (with aim-120s)

 

Since the Mirage 2000 is very maneuverable (more so then the F-15) and with its instantaneous turn rate its very deadly in a close in dogfight.

[Belphe]

Thank you! I'm no ace but I was starting to believe it was worse than I initially thought.. ;)

[Frostie]

Check fuel levels.

The AI is pretty bad.

[Belphe]

I set both aircraft to start @50%... Seems reasonable and realistic...

[Svend_Dellepude]

Guns only or BVR. doesn't matter. As Frostie said; The AI is pretty bad and once you find the AI's pattern of behavior it's pretty easy.

But I also beat The F-15 in Mirage and SU-27, guns only, so I guess it's more of an AI thing than an FM thing.

[Frostie]

I set both aircraft to start @50%... Seems reasonable and realistic...

 

Not really, a full tank in the Flanker is over 2 and half times more fuel than a full tank in the Mirage.

[Chrinik]

Not really, a full tank in the Flanker is over 2 and half times more fuel than a full tank in the Mirage.

 

But it´s realistic in so far as you won´t face a full tanked Mirage in a Bingo Su-27 somewhere in the air usually...

[Belphe]

Not really, a full tank in the Flanker is over 2 and half times more fuel than a full tank in the Mirage.

 

Whatever I change here the Su will pretty much always be at a disadvantage, e.g.: if both aircraft had to fly a similar distance to the combat area the Mirage might be half-empty vs. ~a quarter empty Sukhoi.

 

PS. I just had another session with this scenario and I admit I have only been downed once. Even then, it was due to the enemy ramming me (!!!). The "pissed off" factor is indeed at the maximum with these French pilots... ;) I mean, how often do you find NPCs in DCS fight even when half of their wing is missing?! The computer operated enemy is so eager to get a firing solution on me that it often chooses to abandon all reason and embark on a suicidal quest to land his rounds on me no matter what!. It's a bit crazy, don't you think?!

Either way, I learnt that the "trick" for me is to be extremely aggressive from the very beginning and get the kill after the first turn-around. If I fail at the initial attempt the Mirage's advantage grows quickly and I bleed energy no matter if I'm trying to kill him or trying to stay alive. My enemy makes climbing after sharp turns look like child's play...

[Frostie]

But it´s realistic in so far as you won´t face a full tanked Mirage in a Bingo Su-27 somewhere in the air usually...

 

But not reasonable in a comparison of airframes.

 

With regards to realism it all boils down to the mission, counter air might see the Flanker take off with just half a tank. After missile expenditure/engagements fuel load would be pretty low.

[probad]

you are aware the ai obeys simplified flight model which allows them to defy physics right?

[gavagai]

I merged with a Su-27 in the 2000C yesterday (PvP). After the first circle I narrowly dodged an off-boresight R-73. With the second circle I seemed to be gaining angles, but another off-boresight R-73 quickly ended the argument.

 

I recognize that this thread started with a guns-only scenario, but for practical purposes the 2000C's maneuverability means little compared to the look-and-shoot ability of the FC3 Su-27.

[Ktulu2]

R73 hits 100% if you are not in Rmin OR out of burners at the moment of launch. If you are at risk, either pop preventive flares or risk lowering RPM momentarily. This being said, keep in mind that if the flaker is loaded he'll be limited in the amount of G he can pull otherwise he'll turn into multiple flying objects...

[Dark acs]

I've done a guns only in the mirage against the flanker and it was an easy kill. I tried it on all difficulties and still got him. After the merge I go vertical which puts me behind the flanker. The flanker tempts vertical two but I guess it has a reader arc.

[*Rage*]

The AI is not a good indicator. I think Frostie posted a track somewhere of downing a Mirage in a Mig15.