Question about upgrade from B to A variant.

[Jaktaz]

When the F-14B's began appearing in fleets, where they brand new planes, airframe and all? Or where the F-14Bs just F-14As taken and upgraded with new avionics/systems. I've heard about F-14B's on their last leg around ten years ago appearing very worn and tired, at least on the inside. This implies that even the B's were still the same old airframes from the 70's but I am not sure.

[Darkbrotherhood7]

1- The F-14B had the same F-14A avionics, except by the RWR.

 

2- As far I know, some F-14As were upgraded to the F-14A+(later in 1991 F-14B)standard, and some were brand new F-14Bs, not upgraded.

 

3- the F-14B was implemented in 1987.

 

If you want more details, check this link: http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-history-f14b.htm

Edited June 23, 2016 by Darkbrotherhood7

[QuiGon]

I'm pretty sure there was no upgrade from B to A variant at all ;)

[Darkbrotherhood7]

I'm pretty sure there was no upgrade from B to A variant at all ;)

 

Yeah, that would be a 'step backward'. :)

[punk]

I am not sure where QuiGon;s comment came from but it is late here. OP - as already stated they were both, a mix of refurbished/upgraded A frames and brand new B Frame production when the A stopped. The major upgrade was engines, not so much avionics though there were some.

 

The refurbishment of planes is a very detailed stripping of most of the bird down to the frame and ripping out and rewiring all electrical lines, in depth frame structural strength testing, and overhaul or replace any deficient parts as well as adding brand new 0 time engines many times. She was stripped and repainted at almost every level.

 

Much of that worn and tired look was the result of corrosion control measures and dirty grease monkeys and pilots crawling over and in her nearly daily. (No offense maintainers, all due respect to you all who are the pilots' most vital wingmen, carrier decks can be pretty dirty AOs, even when washed and degreased)

[QuiGon]

I am not sure where QuiGon;s comment came from but it is late here. OP - as already stated they were both, a mix of refurbished/upgraded A frames and brand new B Frame production when the A stopped. The major upgrade was engines, not so much avionics though there were some.

[...]

 

That was just a joking comment at the topic ;)

[punk]

That was just a joking comment at the topic ;)

 

:thumbup:

 

Like I said, tired so it went right over my head :doh:

[jester_]

Or where the F-14Bs just F-14As taken and upgraded with new avionics/systems.

 

As far as I understand the Alpha Cat and Bravo Cat differences were really just the engines.

 

The last Tomcat pilot I spoke with made a big deal about it though. He loved flying the Bombcat with the F110 engines, because it meant more time flying and less time trying to not piss off the TF-30 engines.

[turkeydriver]

38 new build F-14A+(F-14B), 32 converted from select F-14A models in the fleet for a total of 70 produced for the fleet.

[SkateZilla]

From A -> B

Engines: TF30 -> GE F110-400

Added ALR67

Glove Vanes Welded Shut.

[Darkbrotherhood7]

As far as I understand the Alpha Cat and Bravo Cat differences were really just the engines.

No, the F-14B had a new RWR, and of course, new engines.

[Jaktaz]

Glove Vanes Welded Shut.

 

Why would they do this

[Darkbrotherhood7]

Why would they do this

 

Cuz it was not necessary.

[punk]

Why would they do this

They only helped at very high speeds, and then only marginally IIRC. They eventually removed them from production with B I believe and saved the weight and space with new sensors and such in lieu of the vane plates.

[Grundar]

Why would they do this

 

Maintenance vs actual benefit for flight. The performance difference was negligible and only for very high speed operation. Presumably the performance wasn't worth the cost or time of maintenance.

 

And as stated, in later variants the weight and space was used for more important equipment.

[turkeydriver]

From A -> B

Engines: TF30 -> GE F110-400

Added ALR67

Glove Vanes Welded Shut.

 

Just because I haven't seen it....are the glove vanes welded shut on the B or removed? The fairing doesn't look like its welded, it looks like theyre not installed. Was this only for the rebuilds? Please give me a reference. Touching these birds in 2004 showed no signs of having glove vanes, where as you can clearly see them shut on F-14As.

[jester_]

No, the F-14B had a new RWR, and of course, new engines.

 

Well there you go. Bombcat got a shiny new RWR and a new couple of monster engines.

[Sideswipe]

Did they build Super Toms from the ground up, or were they refitted from Bs? Both?

[BlackLion213]

Just because I haven't seen it....are the glove vanes welded shut on the B or removed?

 

I'm pretty sure the B's and D's never had glove vanes, only the F-14As. Many F-14A's had nonfunctional glove vanes by the mid-80s, largely due to a decision not to maintain them (decided squadron by squadron in many cases). If the vanes acted up (which they did often), maintainers would disconnect and cap the hydraulic lines. The weight of the vanes held them in, though sometimes a Tomcat would return with one vane extended a couple inches and the mechs would simply push it back in.

 

In the mid-ish 90s, the Navy elected to formally deactivate the F-14A's vanes and then they were wired shut or welded. But most F-14A's vanes had been nonfunctional long before they were welded.

 

The F-14Bs and F-14Ds never had vanes and were built (or rebuilt) without them.

 

Did they build Super Toms from the ground up, or were they refitted from Bs? Both?

 

About half of F-14Ds and more than half of F-14Bs were rebuilds.

 

I think there were about 30 new build F-14Ds out of a total of 55 operational aircraft.

 

With the F-14B, there were ~36 new build F-14Bs out of around 87 operational aircraft.

 

So most of the "new" F-14s were rebuilt F-14As...from what I've read. :)

 

-Nick

[turkeydriver]

Thanks BL213, that's my understanding as well. It may cause confusion if TDs for the fleet were released with F-14A and B grouped together- making people think the F-14B was included, but in reality of F-14A BUNOs were listed under applicability.