RWR test

[gavagai]

I ran a quick controlled test to see how the RWR functions when there is a missile launch.

 

1. Su-27 locks you up

2. Su-27 has just launched an R-27ER

After the circle around the threat is removed the warning buzzer remains.

 

 

3. Mig-29 locks you up

4. Mig-29 has just launched an R-77. After the circle around the threat is removed the warning buzzer remains.

5. R-77 goes active

 

The F-15 looked the same as the Mig-29 in my test except the AI launched from TWS, so I never got the circle around the 15 on the RWR. When the F-15 launched the warning buzzer sounded, and a few seconds later the diamond M showed up on the RWR.

 

In conclusion, an R-27ER will never show up on the RWR, and the only indication that an R-27ER is inbound is that the circle has been removed from the '27.' The R-77 and AIM-120 will show up as a diamond M when the missiles go active, aka pitbull. What seems strange is that the diamond M shows up further out in the RWR than the aircraft threat. I'm guessing/hoping the diamond M will show up in the inner part of the circle in future patches. I'm also guessing/hoping that a more obvious symbology exists for the R-27ER in a future patch.

Edited August 7, 2016 by gavagai

[zerO_crash]

Do we even know if it is properly modelled (and fully) right now?

[gavagai]

Do we even know if it is properly modelled (and fully) right now?

 

We know it is not finished.

[jojo]

I can't see any of the attached pictures...

[gavagai]

I can't see any of the attached pictures...

 

:doh:

 

I thought I could link them from files I previously uploaded to the forum. Is that better now?

[zerO_crash]

:doh:

 

I thought I could link them from files I previously uploaded to the forum. Is that better now?

 

Hmm, I could see them :huh:

[Sarge55]

I believe the location of a radar source on the RWR (whether inner or outer ring) is based on signal strength not the level of threat. So initially the missile is the weaker signal than the supporting aircraft so the RWR places it it the outer ring. As the missile gets closer it will transition into the inner ring.

 

However the most important thing you still get the warning sound (Pitbull) and the azimuth of the missile which is critical.

[bkthunder]

So the RWR in the Mirage can distinguish between Su-27, 33 and Mig-29??

All other RWRs in game only show the "29" symbol, even if it's a Su-27.

[sedenion]

So the RWR in the Mirage can distinguish between Su-27, 33 and Mig-29??

All other RWRs in game only show the "29" symbol, even if it's a Su-27.

 

Maybe in the 80's, DGSE had better spies than CIA... :p (joke)

[3rd Wing - Raiden]

I am pretty sure Su-27 & Su-33 have the same radar in FC3 anb I know for sure the MiG-29 radar is smaller and have a smaller range than its Sukhoi counterpart in FC3.

 

A RWR should see a difference between them.

[Azrayen]

I know for sure the MiG-29 radar is smaller and have a smaller range than its Sukhoi counterpart in FC3.

 

A RWR should see a difference between them.

No no, there is no guarantee.

 

A RWR has no idea of range. It measures received power. Radars sharing most/all of their wavelenght/waveform characteristics (such as the N001 and the N019) but with different power will simply be "felt" the same way by the RWR (same received power) at different distances (but you can't know it from your RWR).

 

= = = = = = =

 

On a more general note, as we're discussing RWR, I'll repost this schematics I made a few days ago:

 

++

Az'

[bkthunder]

So how can the RWR in the Mirage tell the difference? Is it a bug (albeit a useful bug) ;)

[jojo]

To tell the difference is a matter of intelligence and programming rather than hardware.

 

Without proper data the RWR could mistake F/A-18 for MiG 29 or others.

But if intelligence give you enough data to narrow ID criteria you can have good RWR.

 

Obviously in DCS World intelligence have stellar performances :D

 

 

These things are classified, so we will never know if SERVAL can actually make the difference between MiG 29 and Su 27.

Edited July 7, 2016 by jojo

[3rd Wing - Raiden]

Az' you're right, my bad!

[sedenion]

A good doc here : http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/ew-radar-handbook/signal-sorting-methods-direction-finding.htm

 

The typical emitter characteristics that an ESM system can measure for a pulse radar include the following data:

 

1. Radio Frequency (RF)

2. Amplitude (power)

3. Direction of Arrival (DOA) - also called Angle of Arrival (AOA)

4. Time of Arrival (TOA)

5. Pulse Repetition Interval (PRI)

6. PRI type

7. Pulse Width (PW)

8. Scan type and rate

9. Lobe duration (beam width)

 

However, this list is not comprehensive. Other emitter parameters are available which may be necessary to characterize the threat system.

 

More sophisticated ESM systems can measure additional parameters, such as PRI modulation characteristics, inter-and intra-pulse Frequency Modulation (FM), missile guidance characteristics (e.g., pattern of pulse spacing within a pulse group), and Continuous Wave (CW) signals.

Edited July 7, 2016 by sedenion

[Azrayen]

So how can the RWR in the Mirage tell the difference? Is it a bug (albeit a useful bug) ;)

 

Because it's not a real RWR, it's a simulator.

By definition, DCS World knows everything about itself: he knows that a Su-27 is there, in range, and with its radar on. So the Mirage should have a RWR signal.

 

Now, the RWR should be coded so that Su-27, Su-33 or MiG-29 all use the "29" symbol.

 

On of the difficulties is to code "in reverse" of what exists IRL.

[bkthunder]

Now, the RWR should be coded so that Su-27, Su-33 or MiG-29 all use the "29" symbol.

 

That's exactly what I was getting at ;)

[jojo]

Now, the RWR should be coded so that Su-27, Su-33 or MiG-29 all use the "29" symbol..

 

I agree for Su 27 / Su 33.

For Su 27 / MiG 29 it's what we are used to in some sims. But it's a guess. So maybe, or maybe not.

Few can tell and they won't :smilewink:

Edited July 8, 2016 by jojo

[sedenion]

i think NOW (present time) there is no problem to distinguish Su-27 from Mig-29... at the fall of USSR, many data was probably easly stollen from ex-USSR country. But before the 90's, hard to say.