F-5E TigerII no INS and IFF?

[ThorBrasil]

I bought the F-5E. I'm reading the manual. I saw that the aircraft will not have IFF and INS. Because? It is confidential information? It is a limitation of DCS? Thank you!

[Eddie]

Because the real aircraft doesn't have them.

[Darkbrotherhood7]

The F-5E doesn't have INS, IFF, or even ILS. Still a great fighter, but it doesn't have such features.

[ThorBrasil]

How you do not have? The warning panel of the F-5E that is in the Manual. He says he has.

 

[mattebubben]

How you do not have? The warning panel of the F-5E that is in the Manual. He says he has.

 

 

It has an IFF Transponder.

 

But no IFF interregator.

 

AS in friendly aircraft / IFF systems can see the F-5E as friendly.

 

But it can not ID other aircrafts through their Transponders.

 

But realistically this was never a problem not a limitation as it was a Visual range only fighter (no bvr missiles)

 

so you had to see an enemy before you could fire at him and if you saw him you could ID him.

 

Only problem is since alot of missions in DCS (especially MP missions) are unrealistic (with all sides having the same aircraft types)

 

making a Visual ID is alot harder.

 

So while it was not a worry in real life it will be a problem on some MP servers.

 

And also IFF systems even recently have never been as effective / reliable as they are in game.

 

Nor do they work like they do in game where they automatically know everything 100% of the time)

 

(Since IFF interrogators can only interrogate compatible systems that use the correct code/Setup so for example AFIK a Mig-29 using a standard Russian or Eastern Export IFF system cant show up as a Friend to a F-15 using a nato IFF system so you still relied either on having AWACS/Ground Control etc determine friend or foe by using the info they had or you had to get a Visual ID)

 

So its an Unrealistic Scenario/setup that will punish the F-5E a bit when it comes to Air-Air.

Edited July 8, 2016 by mattebubben

[ThorBrasil]

It has an IFF Transponder.

 

But no IFF interregator.

 

AS in friendly aircraft / IFF systems can see the F-5E as friendly.

 

But it can not ID other aircrafts through their Transponders.

 

Thank You!

[Eddie]

The IFF caption refers to the IFF transponder, which allows the aircraft to reply to IFF interrogations.

 

The F-5E has no IFF interrogator and as such can't perform IFF interrogation on other aircraft.

[Sim Flyer]

Did anyone else notice it also says INS in that warning panel?

[mattebubben]

INS was a Optional customer choice so there are some F-5Es that have INS but it will not be in the module we get.

(from everything that as been said atleast)

So i dont know the reason behind the letters INS on the Warning panel in the Manual.

 

But i do know there is no INS in the F-5E we are getting.

[Eddie]

The INS and DIR GYRO captions will light up on a lamp test, even though neither system us installed on the aircraft.

 

As said above, they were optiona available for export customers. And as such they are provided for on the caution panel.

[Sim Flyer]

okay makes sense to standardize things so it is easier to produce

[VTJS17_Fire]

So we'll don't get the INS/ navigation panel on the right cockpit panel, which you can see on some cockpit photos? :(

[mattebubben]

So we'll don't get the INS/ navigation panel on the right cockpit panel, which you can see on some cockpit photos? :(

 

Again it was an optional.

 

So some Users chose to get the INS (for additional cost) but others (most) did not get the INS (as with the way it was used it was not needed for most customers).

 

And we are getting one without the INS (as was the majority).

[shaunwallis21]

so this is suppose balance the game for the Mig 21 BIS like the most exported version with all the added features but we dont get iff ok no its cool ill rely On dcs's world renown spotting...

[lmp]

so this is suppose balance the game for the Mig 21 BIS like the most exported version with all the added features but we dont get iff ok no its cool ill rely On dcs's world renown spotting...

 

I believe BST are aiming for a faithful recreation of the real thing rather than a fantasy aircraft that won't upset the balance on your favorite air quake server.

[Steel Jaw]

I believe BST are aiming for a faithful recreation of the real thing rather than a fantasy aircraft that won't upset the balance on your favorite air quake server.

 

Well done, brother.

[shaunwallis21]

I believe BST are aiming for a faithful recreation of the real thing rather than a fantasy aircraft that won't upset the balance on your favorite air quake server.

 

you realize that a export version of the tiger might have included IFF back in 1970 just like the mig 21 bis could have been exported with or without it.

 

i dont join airquakes

[Kelevra9987]

I think that people just don't understand the purpose behind DCS and thus complaining about "balancing" and stuff like that. But it is a simulation that tries to recreate the real thing as close as possible. So if the real F-5 did not have this and that, the Sim won't have it either. :O

[mattebubben]

you realize that a export version of the tiger might have included IFF back in 1970 just like the mig 21 bis could have been exported with or without it.

 

i dont join airquakes

 

Do you have actual Facts that there was an Optional IFF Interrogator available for Export versions?

 

or is that just guess work.

 

Since i have found nothing to lead me to think that.

 

More over For its intended Duties it did not really need a IFF interrogator to start with.

 

Its Air-Air role was as a Day fighter.

 

It was never intended to do all weather missions or night missions. (it could do so by following its radar and especially with the help of GCI)

 

And for the Day fighter role and only being armed with Within Visual Range weapons the lack of IFF interrogation abilities was no real negative.

 

In comparison some of the later Mig-21 variants (Mig-21Bis included) had the IFF interrogation ability as it was designed so that it could be used for limited all weather interception missions

(with GCI guiding it to where it could see the target with its own radar).

 

And for that mission and used together with the R3R radar guided missile there was actually a point of having the IFF interrogation system since with the R3R they did not have to be visual with a target to launch at it.

 

While with the F-5E you had to be Visual to get a good missile tone (radar lock could guide you to an intercept but you still had to see the target to be able to get a reliable missile lock on it.

 

And during this time period it was not unusual at all that fighters (especially those without BVR armament to not have IFF interrogation systems)

Edited July 16, 2016 by mattebubben

[lmp]

you realize that a export version of the tiger might have included IFF back in 1970 just like the mig 21 bis could have been exported with or without it.

 

i dont join airquakes

 

You used the balance argument and that's why I replied the way I did. I don't know why exactly the devs didn't do the version with the IFF (if it existed), but I sincerely doubt it has anything to do with balance and rather everything to do with the inability to simulate it faithfully. If that is the case, then I believe they made the right choice and we'll just have to balance it with proper mission design. Remember, you still have a much better RWR, and in combination with proper briefing and deconflicting of pilots on your team, it's not really such a big deal.

 

On a bit of a side note, I wish DCS simulated IFF better in general (different modes, failures of equipment, incompatibilities of different systems etc.). That way people couldn't depend on it so much, would have to work around with and actually plan a little more ahead of time before taking off ;).

[mutz]

INS

 

Swiss Version of the F5-E Tiger has INS (Inertial Navigation System). But it is not very reliable, after a 1v1 often it was offset by 3-5 NM... but for long distance navigation it should work. If you store some points and you overfly them, you can reset the system even in flight. As said above, I only know the swiss version :) (guess where I come from...)

[Dino Might]

Well, with the zoom function, the lack of IFF shouldn't be too much of a problem. I know, it's not realistic, but because of the difficulty in seeing aircraft that are less than a mile away, I still use it a lot, and it is fairly simple to tell a MiG-21 from a SU-27 from a F-15. Now, on servers where everyone gets to fly whatever they want, this will be mayhem, but on servers like Blue Flag or strict MiG-21 vs F-5, it should be no issue.

 

I would like if they put IFF in the fighter, but I don't see it as a big problem without it. I prepurchased a while ago, and the only thing I'm less than happy about is the wait. To be clear, not complaining - I'm just admitting that I'm impatient to fly this thing! :)