Using the INS for precission bombing

[Lorenzo.D]

But tas for the radar is automatic i see in the video...

 

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[Frederf]

Yes you do. You need a sensor to designate the Initial Point.

 

Neither IP INS update method (overfly/oblique) requires any selection of TAS or RS. The IP update is only changed by selecting OBL or not.

 

Maybe TAS/RS improves the vertical accuracy of a flyover IP update. I'm not sure about that.

[Azrayen]

You guys are both right, you're just not speaking of the same thing.

Jojo says TAS and RS matter for bombing.

Frederf says they don't for position updating.

[Lorenzo.D]

On the video zeus don' T push tas and rs

 

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[jojo]

You guys are both right, you're just not speaking of the same thing.

Jojo says TAS and RS matter for bombing.

Frederf says they don't for position updating.

 

I would like to be explained how to do OBL update without radar (TAS : even if it doesn't show up on PCA, that's what happens) ?

Edited October 31, 2016 by jojo

[TomCatMucDe]

On the video zeus don' T push tas and rs

 

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when he pushes PI, TAS is tuned on automatically. In the current beta it's not the case. You have to do it yourself.

 

 

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[Valium]

Is there any video which explains what ΔL/ΔG, ALT, ΔALT, etc. is?

And how to do this by using INS or waypoints by mission editor or how to cooperate with JTAC to have cross at the same place where my target is?

And how to use bombs like GBU-12 ( with JTAC there's lasering on but without not ) because they still don't hit the target...?

 

I'm stupid, try to read something but still don't understand that. Some say that it's easy but at the beginning it looks to be difficult.

 

The best way for my is to write what I should to step by step or in video like Rlaxox did - he helped me to understand INS, etc.

 

 

I begin to give up because I still try, many times and still nothing.

[SageOT]

Getting ready to try to teach myself this. Quick question if you're a cheater like me and use the no alignment warm up or drift. :-) Do you still need to update the nav point prior to the offset? Like it talked about using the radar on a water tower or something, or will it just stay good like all the other nav points do?

Edited November 10, 2016 by SageOT

[Frederf]

If you want to use "PI" mode then yes. The mechanics of the automatic stepping from BUT to BAD are depending on going through the steps even if it doesn't actually update the INS.

 

But if you have a perfect INS why use "PI" in the first place? Just select BAD and bomb BAD directly. "PI" isn't required bomb BAD, just useful if you want to update INS on the way.

[SageOT]

Cool, thanks. Well the way I read it to get all the extra cues you had to do it this way...

 

 

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[Frederf]

I should clarify, you can't blind bomb direct without PI. That is different. If you select a BAD only then you still have to visually designate for CCIP/CCRP.

[zaelu]

Anyone else tested if it works now in 1.55?

 

I still got the IP point off and stays of even after updating and the target cross (offset) is not where it should be. Also Bombs fall quite far.

 

Is it just me?

[Robin_Hood]

What distance is the IP from its intended position ? Also, what method do you use, polar or North/East ?

[zaelu]

Target is 45° East and 19nm of IP (655m bellow IP).

 

I tried again once and precision seems OKish but the crosses are off and stay off.

[CallsignFrosty]

I get accurate bomb drops and even did before the latest update, although the crosses on HUD seem off.

 

On TAW 3 server yesterday did a two man INS toss bombing on the Russian factory complex..

Main building destroyed and most of the complex on fire.

 

I can say that bomb toss over a hill defo works as intended.

 

 

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[CallsignFrosty]

;2953295']I get accurate bomb drops and even did before the latest update, although the crosses on HUD seem off.

 

On TAW 3 server yesterday did a two man INS toss bombing on the Russian factory complex..

Main building destroyed and most of the complex on fire.

 

I can say that bomb toss over a hill defo works as intended.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

During a CCIP snake eye run, bombs all fell short however

 

 

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[SageOT]

Frosty, what's your procedure for tossing?

[CallsignFrosty]

Using the INS for precission bombing

 

Frosty, what's your procedure for tossing?

 

 

 

Using the PI bombing mode.

Find an IP about 15nm from target area, something that you can easily find with your own eyes. I generally use a 'corner building' of a town or a bridge or a split in a river.

 

Program in the grids of the IP then set the offset to the target (use the bearing and range method, its easiest)

 

At about 10nm from target (if on the deck) pull 20-30 degrees nose up, full burn.

 

Release on the cue.

 

 

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Edited November 16, 2016 by CallsignFrosty

[CallsignFrosty]

Using the INS for precission bombing

 

;2954180']Using the PI bombing mode.

Find an IP about 15nm from target area, something that you can easily find with your own eyes. I generally use a 'corner building' of a town or a bridge or a split in a river.

 

Program in the grids of the IP then set the offset to the target (use the bearing and range method, its easiest)

 

Follow the normal INS bomb procedure and pull up 20 - 30 degrees when you are about 10nm from target

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Sorry about this post- tapatalk messed up and now I can't even delete it :/

 

 

 

 

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Edited November 16, 2016 by CallsignFrosty

[SageOT]

Great thanks

[TomCatMucDe]

Low priority issue:

INS bombing worked well for me with the MK82. However when I tried the same thing with the GBU12, i missed by a very big distance.

While it's not so critical since you normally rely on the laser, it could happen that your best lazing buddy just let you down or doesn't show up for whatever reason. It would be nice to be able to drop them yourself...

PS: I didn't mix the payloads.

 

 

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[Valium]

I'm not sure but I think that MK82 need GPS navigation so it's good for static points [ creating in mission editor, additional point, theta, etc. ] but GBU bombs near laser.

 

Never tried to use GBU without JTAC so far but if you have target and JTAC near it and if it's 'lasing' option is turned on and all those commands like SPOT, etc. are done, GBU gain target without any problems.

 

 

I still don't understand what's going on with INS update and how many ways are to do this.

I watched many videos and each says something else. I usually try to attack even if this cross on HUD is in other place because I can't change it. However, sometimes I hit the target, sometimes not. I can't imagine how to do this at night / fog / with many clouds and I'm using Mk82 and INS but if I take GBU with help of JTAC - it's not a problem.

[Robin_Hood]

TomCatMucDe: I did a few short tests in direct mode (simple CCRP), and my GBU-12s always fall long, and fall longer the more flat the release profile is (lower dive at release = longer bomb). This contrasts with the Mk-82 that always seem to fall slighly short. Not sure if this is a bug, or if this is intended (like using the same aerodynamics to calculate fall profile for the two bombs).

 

Valium: Let me see if I can clarify this a bit for you:

 

First of all, CCRP bombing with Mk-82 doesn't need GPS (which the Mirage hasn't anyway) or INS, or coordinates of any sort. Point at the target, designate it - the radar or radio altitude then determines the position of the target relative to you - and drop. As of now, at least, you can even drop Mk-82 bombs without even powering on the INS (note - this may or may not be a bug; it is possible that the system still needs some basic information from the INS to calculate the release cue).

 

Secondly, GBU-12 behave exaclty as Mk-82 as far as release is concerned. After launch of course, aerodynamics may be different and the GBU-12 can obviously be guided by a laser, but the way they are released is absolutely the same.

 

INS Update is a wholly different subject. In short, I think there are three ways to update the INS. The two 'normal' updates, using either the REC button on the PCN (for an overfly update) or the OBL mode (for a radar update), and the special 'PI' update, done at the start of an INS bombing run. That one is, in effect, an OBL update.

 

Lastly, about what this topic is about. The INS bombing is a special CCRP mode very separate from the normal CCRP release. In this mode, you enter the target position* and the INS will guide you to release point. This mode requires the INS, and requires it to be as accurate as possible, because the target is not designated by you as in the CCRP method, it is a set of coordinates. Therefore, the system needs to know your own coordinates so that it can compute a correct firing solution.

 

* Actually, you enter the coordinates of the IP and tells the system the position of the target relative to the IP, but it is effectively the same thing.

 

I'd also like to add a few words about the INS. The INS is not here to tell you where your targets or waypoints are. These are fixed coordinates entered (or deduced). The purpose or the INS is to tell you where you are, what are your own coordinates (and heading, etc...). Then, knowing your coordinates, it can tell you where are other stuff relative to you.

 

Here's hoping I didn't confuse you even more :book:

Edited November 18, 2016 by Robin_Hood

[TomCatMucDe]

TomCatMucDe: I did a few short tests in direct mode (simple CCRP), and my GBU-12s always fall long, and fall longer the more flat the release profile is (lower dive at release = longer bomb). This contrasts with the Mk-82 that always seem to fall slighly short. Not sure if this is a bug, or if this is intended (like using the same aerodynamics to calculate fall profile for the two bombs).

 

Valium: Let me see if I can clarify this a bit for you:

 

First of all, CCRP bombing with Mk-82 doesn't need GPS (which the Mirage hasn't anyway) or INS, or coordinates of any sort. Point at the target, designate it - the radar or radio altitude then determines the position of the target relative to you - and drop. As of now, at least, you can even drop Mk-82 bombs without even powering on the INS (note - this may or may not be a bug; it is possible that the system still needs some basic information from the INS to calculate the release cue).

 

Secondly, GBU-12 behave exaclty as Mk-82 as far as release is concerned. After launch of course, aerodynamics may be different and the GBU-12 can obviously be guided by a laser, but the way they are released is absolutely the same.

 

INS Update is a wholly different subject. In short, I think there are three ways to update the INS. The two 'normal' updates, using either the REC button on the PCN (for an overfly update) or the OBL mode (for a radar update), and the special 'PI' update, done at the start of an INS bombing run. That one is, in effect, an OBL update.

 

Lastly, about what this topic is about. The INS bombing is a special CCRP mode very separate from the normal CCRP release. In this mode, you enter the target position* and the INS will guide you to release point. This mode requires the INS, and requires it to be as accurate as possible, because the target is not designated by you as in the CCRP method, it is a set of coordinates. Therefore, the system needs to know your own coordinates so that it can compute a correct firing solution.

 

* Actually, you enter the coordinates of the IP and tells the system the position of the target relative to the IP, but it is effectively the same thing.

 

I'd also like to add a few words about the INS. The INS is not here to tell you where your targets or waypoints are. These are fixed coordinates entered (or deduced). The purpose or the INS is to tell you where you are, what are your own coordinates (and heading, etc...). Then, knowing your coordinates, it can tell you where are other stuff relative to you.

 

Here's hoping I didn't confuse you even more :book:

 

+1. fully agree

[tflash]

B]

1. Select the weapon that you want to use: BL1/BF1/BF4/BF8/EL1. (See Bomb Codes note)

2. Set Master Arm On. System switches to Ground Attack mode.

3. Check that both TAS and RS are selected.

4. Click on PI (Point Initial) button in the PCA. This will designate current waypoint as the IP.

 

Quick question: I do not see the PI button appear? TAS and RS are selected.