the craziest cookiest and coolest kill ive ever gotten in dcs

[pepto]

[ame=https://vimeo.com/177655683]here's the video[/ame]

 

after about a half hour of messing around with the mirage which i now dearly love i was able out-hollywood hollywood itself with the coolest kill ive ever gotten in my years of playing dcs,

:P

 

track is available for download!

whatshouldinamethismove.trk

[xKBLx_Viper_6354]

That is cool mate. I like it :)

[ZHeN]

:( this is a very disappointing video

flight model is still ridiculous ... I thought this behaviour has already been fixed many patches ago ... :( no progress so far

how can we even discuss future PFM having this ..?

 

CptSmiley, you plead guilty ?

[Kelevra9987]

:( this is a very disappointing video

flight model is still ridiculous ... I thought this behaviour has already been fixed many patches ago ... :( no progress so far

how can we even discuss future PFM having this ..?

 

CptSmiley, you plead guilty ?

 

Calm down :O

Guess why the Mirage is still in Beta?

Those things are to be expected. And I am most certain this is known and will be fixed in the future.

[ZHeN]

Calm down :O

Guess why the Mirage is still in Beta?

Those things are to be expected. And I am most certain this is known and will be fixed in the future.

it's what everybody said in december 2015 when we had this:

9 months passed

[Kelevra9987]

Gosh...

Let it be 9 Months. Who cares... it doesn't matter how long they need for a Plane to finish but the quality at the release. That matters!

But with your ranting 'bout this and that you won't reach the Devs. Write a proper Bug report and first and foremost WAIT.

 

Patience is a virtue.

 

 

Greetings

Kelevra

[ZHeN]

I'm not ranting. I'm not even a gunzo-man, I didn't even know FM still behaved like this, till I saw this video.

But flight model is a thing that matters a lot to customers when they decide whether to buy the module or not. Since it's first beta release the weakest point of M2K was EFM with its obvious inconsistancies like we see in these videos.

 

I was really delighted to read respectful opinions on the subject lately:

Last version of the FM matches a lot of available sources and got praised. There is still a bit of work regarding ground handling (even if it's already much better than before) and auto-pilot, but overall it's on the good path. This FM is probably more difficult than other because it needs a supplementary "layer" of complexity: the aircraft is unstable, and needs FBW to be flown. The CoG was adjusted several weeks ago, but then other linked features needed to be re-done.

 

but it turns out not everything is so great as they say

 

moreover, as far as I understand, CptSmiley is not so deeply immersed into the project as Zeus67, you can read that between the lines in Zeus' quotes:

I'll check with CptSmiley on that one. He has made a bunch of bug fixes so it is probably fixed by now. He is actually enjoying his new toy: The Tucano and is getting ready for work on the Harrier.

Edited August 5, 2016 by ZHeN

[Falcon_S]

:( this is a very disappointing video

flight model is still ridiculous ... I thought this behaviour has already been fixed many patches ago ... :( no progress so far

how can we even discuss future PFM having this ..?

 

CptSmiley, you plead guilty ?

 

+1

 

Calm down :O

Guess why the Mirage is still in Beta?

Those things are to be expected. And I am most certain this is known and will be fixed in the future.

 

That "beta" should keep in DCSW BETA and who like it can enjoy in BETA WORLD. M2000 is the sickest model in DCSW.

 

Shame!

Edited August 5, 2016 by BIGNEWY
1.1 profanity

[Whisper]

Behavior when out of FBW control is still problematic, that doesn't make the whole flight model ridiculous.

Actually, this maneuver in real game scenarios (ie, not a staged stunt against a huge non maneuvering bomber) would be completely useless. 99.99% of the pilot in real game situations will keep their FBW untouched and just fly the damn thing. In which case M2K FM is perfectly fine.

 

We are far, far, far from "flight model is still ridiculous", please.

[ZHeN]

does anyone have info on M2K behaviour IRL with FBW off ?

 

this maneuver is called "Frolov's Chakra" and was first performed by Evgeniy Frolov on a TVC equipped Su-30MKI (or experimental Su-37, I can't remember)

 

I highly doubt this is possible IRL without TVC.

[Aginor]

Pretty sure that in real life you would lose control, and a LOT of speed. You would also most probably flameout.

I wouldn't even rule out that the plane would fall apart.

 

Anyway, this might really be hard to fix and 99.99% of the time useless, but I'd like to see it fixed regardless.

Not severe IMO, still a bug.

[Pikey]

There's a post where Zeus says the changes on the FM are ending because of diminishing returns and there will always be limits on what can be done with the modelling.

 

So before anyone throws their teddies out of the pram, check in case you like your teddy and actually want to keep it.

[ZHeN]

wouldn't it be easier to just script plane destruction and loss of control/speed when turning FBW off ?

[Rlaxoxo]

wouldn't it be easier to just script plane destruction and loss of control/speed when turning FBW off ?

 

Mate that's already modeled at higher speeds plus sorry to tell you this but you're really that kind of guy who's not fun at parties ...

 

Can't you just enjoy the moment we have before it's taken from us?

Make some fun and good memories

[bkthunder]

How the hell did you do that backflip??? I didn't know it was even possible!

 

The questions is not how many times people will use this in game. I'll never understand this kind of comment, this is a SIMULATION. This is not physically possible in the real world, so it shouldn't be possible at all in the sim.

I believe the FM is a carefully crafted series of parameters, that influence each other. Cleary something is wrong in some of those parameters if we're able to perform such stunts, and this should make you think that other parts of the fm are affected as well.

[ZHeN]

Can't you just enjoy the moment we have before it's taken from us?

seems like this moment isn't gonna be taken from us

[Rlaxoxo]

How the hell did you do that backflip??? I didn't know it was even possible!

 

The questions is not how many times people will use this in game. I'll never understand this kind of comment, this is a SIMULATION. This is not physically possible in the real world, so it shouldn't be possible at all in the sim.

I believe the FM is a carefully crafted series of parameters, that influence each other. Cleary something is wrong in some of those parameters if we're able to perform such stunts, and this should make you think that other parts of the fm are affected as well.

 

There is a Switch called "FBW Gain switch" which disables FBW system much like in Flanker

Tho in Mirages case no one uses that cus they're not crazy and don't have a death wish

As you know Mirage is highly unstable with no FBW system so anything is possible

 

seems like this moment isn't gonna be taken from us

 

Tell me something have you personally tried doing this?

 

Cus if you did yo would know it's not possible to do this unless you're going realllllllly slow

Edited August 5, 2016 by Rlaxoxo

[ZHeN]

I mean RAZBAM is talking about a serious simulator here, not just an arcade toy like Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X.

Realistic systems & flight modelling.

But looking at these videos, it becomes obvious, that the quality of flight modelling is far from the quality of systems modelling at the moment. :(

 

Tell me something have you personally tried doing this?

yea, long time ago - many patches back

 

Cus if you did yo would know it's not possible to do this unless you're going realllllllly slow

see, there should be no "unless"

Edited August 5, 2016 by ZHeN

[Rlaxoxo]

My brain hurts from your comments ... Don't even know why I entered into this discussion when I know it was pointless ...

[ZHeN]

sorry, Rlaxoxo

[bkthunder]

There is a Switch called "FBW Gain switch" which disables FBW system much like in Flanker

Tho in Mirages case no one uses that cus they're not crazy and don't have a death wish

As you know Mirage is highly unstable with no FBW system so anything is possible

 

I was under the impression that the FBW gain switch was changed at some point, where before it was a total disconnect of the FBW, now it works as Gain changer (similar to the flcs override in the F-16), and it doesn't completely disconnect the FBW.

 

As you know Mirage is highly unstable with no FBW system so anything is possible

 

No, I don't think anything is possible. Sure without a FBW an abrupt departure in pitch is very possible, but form the video, I see the aircraft maintain speed and recovering very cleanly from a backflip. I think it's physically impossible to start at 280 kts and exit such a manoeuvre at more than 250 kts! Losing lees than 30 kts of airspeed... Look at the Su-27 doing a cobra, and how much speed it's bleeding. It's just impossible.

The plane would probably stop dead in the sky and fall like brick afterwards.

[Rlaxoxo]

sorry, Rlaxoxo

 

Dunno why but I'm gonna give it another go to make you realize something ...

 

Look, when Mirage came out for the first time you could do all sorts of stuff which was fun and all but unrealistic ofc, step by step FBW got improved and at this point FBW is almost perfect

There are few minor issues here and there but that will get fixed over time

 

This is with FBW Gain ON

 

If you turn off the FBW Gain you can still fly normaly but it doesn't limit the elevons like it does when you have FBW Gain ON

Not sure if you noticed Mirage is reallly unstable with no FBW for example if you have FBW on and you go into the turn Mirage it self will not Keep the Elevators in upward possition otherwise you would go out of control and do a backflip

Instead what the FBW does it it pushes the plane into the turn and while in the turn it sets back the elevators to a slight downward position like you want to pitch down position to keep the turn

Do you understand what this means?

This behavior tells you what happens when you don't have FBW Gain off otherwise you would have to pull a stick for 1 second then push the stick forward to keep the turn or even survive the turn

 

Each one or two weeks FBW got updated by a leaps and bounds and Smiley did amazing job with that, we as Sim pilots can often go into extreme flight envelopes and that's kinda hard to model ether way he did good job from what it was before and seeing you know complain about a stupid backflip that almost nobody in their right mind will do cus it's highely risky and can be done only is rare conditions which are pointless in real fight makes me ... better I not say ...

 

Not to mention that it can starve your engine if you're not careful and make your engine turn off

 

Don't know man you just complain way to much for something that doesn't even affect anyone

 

Edit: Ofc I have to spell it out for those people who take every letter under the microscope ...

I don't think this is correct FM behaviour as well and it will get fixed but atm ... you're not gonna be able to do this under normal conditions and even if you do it's unpractical

Edited August 5, 2016 by BIGNEWY
1.1 profanity

[jojo]

That is a bug that need to be fixed.

 

But in normal condition (GAIN and VRILLE switch to NORM) the plane behave nicely and realistically.

 

So online, be fair, don't mess with FBW switches (since a real pilot wouldn't do that anyway) and until it's fixed it will be nice...

[codefox]

Don't know man you just complain way to much for something that doesn't even affect anyone

Nonetheless this is a bug. It does not work as intended - you may not know how it works in real life but I can assure you that this is not how a plane flies, ever, at least not without TVC.

 

Maybe it'd be better to post it in the bugs forum but overall it's pretty clear something weird is going on, so I deem it reasonable to be adressed by the players. It's no show-stopper by any means but it's still a bug.

[ZHeN]

seeing you know complain about a stupid backflip that almost nobody in their right mind will do cus it's highely risky and can be done only is rare conditions which are pointless in real fight makes me ... better I not say ...

rare conditions ? 236knots @ 10k feet ? with FBW off ? you call it rare conditions ?

if a plane doesn't destruct and doesn't lose control/speed with these conditions, then dogfighters will DEFINITELY always have FBW off in most of their sorties - if it gives them such enormous AoA's

Not to mention that it can starve your engine if you're not careful and make your engine turn off

oh yeah, let's mention it

I had this case once online - a week ago. I was head on 2xF-5 Tigers, just wanted to splash both of them with my 530s. Splashed one, and another one ascended really high above me, so I had to pull the stick back hard. Of course I never switch my FBW off, moreover in that flight I had a central fuel tank on me, so I had FBW Charges. I have no idea how it happened, but when I pulled hard on the stick and gained ~85°, suddenly the plane got into a flat spin and started falling, making an engine stop. I had to run an emergincy start-up procedure ... managed to get out alive

But this never happened to me again.

another flight model bug !

 

I mean, of course engine stop during flat spin or long inverted flight is realistic. But the flat spin itself just because I pushed hard on the stick with FBW Charges ? Excuse me.

Edited August 5, 2016 by ZHeN