F-22 destroys the Su-27 in super maneuverbility

[nscode]

If you are going against recon aircraft it's not nececessary to shoot it down to be efective. Recon aircraft are all about getting time-sencitive info that you can't get using a satellite. If you make the aircraft divert from the area it was suposed to spy on, it has done no more than just burn alot of fuel ;)

[Guest IguanaKing]

Yup...divert that SR71 more than 2,000 miles from its intended target, and it is rendered ineffective. Well...he'll no longer be able to read license plates in the target area anyway. :music_whistling:

[TucksonSonny]

Roger that, Nscode...just saying that the F-14 had that ability. Many people seem to think that American aircraft didn't have this capability until recently, and it isn't the case. ;)

 

Too bad that the Navy (read US government) did not do further development for the JTIDS datalink system (aim-54), because of too expensive and because of stealth with short-range tactics.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Hmmm...even if they HAD furthered it (which may or may not have been done), do you think the average civilian like us would have known about it? :smilewink:

[AlexHunter]

The Mig-31 however was ALOT better at it than any other russian fighter at the time and i believe the F-14 didnt have that kind of capability but so did the TOMCAT have other advantages over the mig-31 like true long range AA capability with 6 on 6 engagements.

My view is that they were both to fill different mission objectives, the Mig would be good to scare off fighters without much BVR reach, but versus the tomcat would be a hazardous endeavour that should be avoided. For the Tomcats missiles give it the ability to turn away from the migs missiles once they go active, on top of the fact that the phoenix, according to the books has a greater range than the Amos.

 

The primary mission for the mig was to hunt down long range bombers over large areas but I think they were more likely to end up going against fighters much like the Tomcat did. Except the mig cant turn at all, although it would probably do a good job dodging missiles by high speed much like its older brother the foxbat did in Iraq.

 

BTW isnt the mig-31 STILL the fastest fighter in service?

 

Aircraft F -14 with radar Awg-9 ensures the simultaneous firing of 6 purposes, but in the sector of 40х40 of degrees(horizon +/- 20, vertical line of +20/-20 degrees), and MIG-31 (1981 of release), ensure simultaneous launching 4 Р-33 along 4 purposes in the sector on the horizon +/- 70 degrees, on the vertical line of +70/-60 degrees in this case without losing tracking other not attacked purposes and without changing the regime of the work of the radar (i.e. - rocket attack is completely reserved) and all this relates to MIG-31 not modernized, the modernized version has another already rocket, another board and now consecutively ENTIRE park MIG-31 in Russia actively is modernized. Also it is annual with 80 more, onboard complex MiG-31 can fulfill the function of mini DRLO and direct other aircraft on the purpose along the telecode channel with the aid of the automated digital noise-shielded equipment for the transmission of data OF РК-РЛДН and АПД -518.

[GGTharos]

That's right - this is because the F-14 had a mechanically scanned antenna.

However at 200km, a 40x40 sector is pretty large!

In addition the AIM-54 is a TARH missile, so the F-15 can break away when the 54 is active.

 

The MiG-31 did not have that capability.

I assume you are talking about the MiG-31BM now which is indeed a great development. Is the R-37 finally going to be built, or has it been built recently to equip the MiG-31? :)

[AlexHunter]

That's right - this is because the F-14 had a mechanically scanned antenna.

However at 200km, a 40x40 sector is pretty large!

In addition the AIM-54 is a TARH missile, so the F-15 can break away when the 54 is active.

 

The MiG-31 did not have that capability.

I assume you are talking about the MiG-31BM now which is indeed a great development. Is the R-37 finally going to be built, or has it been built recently to equip the MiG-31? :)

 

There will there be not R -37:), there will be a little another rocket

[AlexHunter]

I will here give the opinion of Russian specialist apropos, for which to us was necessary this over maneuverability and that gave to us the engine with the variable thrust vector,created and been actively in the work on the aircraft of different constructions both in KB Sukhoy and in KB Mikoyan.

 

"An.Petrovich: simply the presence UVT once allowed engineers with the more- less acceptable risk to enter into the door with the table the "super-maneuverability" (i.e. beyond the limits low speeds and large UA), into which without the thrust vector earlier to climb they elementarily feared.But when they left to this field, it is neat, step after shazhochkom, then unexpectedly for itself, and to the honor of the brilliant creators of glider Su-27, they revealed that its aerodynamics was capable to the much large, and in it (so already it left) is placed that,about which they themselves did not surmise.So, with the aid of UVT as the guarantee of safety, began the study of the completely new laws of control of the complex of lifting surfaces, not only PGO, good SDU made it possible to sufficient easily realize all these laws,to flexibly change algorithms and tuning of coefficients. The sum of this entire work was the demonstration of the fact mentioned by you that the glider with the necessary modifications SDU can repeat practically all the same maneuvers, but without UVT.Now, along the same way itself actively they move Mikoyan, relying on the obtained experience Of sukhovtsev.Therefore, to all skeptics UVT/OVT, who (with the caution to the West) doubt the need of continuing these works, 4 to otvechu, that thrust vector - this is OUTSTANDING means for the study of the possibilities of aircraft in the near- and supercritical flight conditions,with the aid of which substantially it is possible to improve and to optimize the algorithms of control systems, after attaining the considerably best stability parameters and controllability in these regimes,and to obtain the colossal experience of the development of the aerodynamic appearance of the aircraft of the following generations. Americans, at the present moment, of these possibilities are deprived."

 

You will excuse, translator transfers the name OF OKB Sukhoy, it is verbatim - dry :)

[AlexHunter]

So must appear tactical information on SU-27C, transferred by the telecode communication channel from the ground stations, the station DRLO (A -50 bumblebee) or from controlling unit MIG-31.There even is reflected order the distribution of purposes for the friendly groups. Figure, the otskanirovannyy sheet RLE on SU-27CK (export version SU-27C for China)

 

[Pilotasso]

Im not familiar with these new Mig-31 developments, any reliable sources on the net?

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I would be carefull saying the Mig-31 can do 90º off F pole. While modern AESA radars might be able to do it, PESA may not be the same case, even more when the beam is 90º off the dish the projected area is virtualy null.

It possibly could, however, I think that maybe and probably it can.

 

Well, I will not speculate, I’ll just say I don’t know.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

It didn't seem to be too effective against SR-71s though. :D

You and me don’t know that right? If you do know, you wouldn’t be talking about it here.

 

Blackbird was tremendous engineering and technological achievement. I saw one, live, in Tucson Arizona museum. Unbelievable bird!

 

However, Foxbat was clocked at mach 3.2 flying over Israel during the cold war. And also, there are reasons why Blackbird does not fly any more.

[hitman]

And also, there are reasons why Blackbird does not fly any more.

 

Why is that?

[Guest IguanaKing]

You and me don’t know that right? If you do know, you wouldn’t be talking about it here.

 

Blackbird was tremendous engineering and technological achievement. I saw one, live, in Tucson Arizona museum. Unbelievable bird!

 

However, Foxbat was clocked at mach 3.2 flying over Israel during the cold war. And also, there are reasons why Blackbird does not fly any more.

 

Big deal...the SR-71 could do the same...AND do it for longer than 7 minutes before running out of fuel. Yes, there WERE reasons it wasn't flying anymore (end of the cold war...and the almost undeniable suspicion that something even better was already in operation. Not that its true...but logic might suggest that it is.), yet the USAF and NASA decided to reactivate a few of them. I saw at least one per week, in flight, in 1989 when I was at USAF Plant 42. Sadly, they were arriving to be decommissioned. What IS known, however, is that the cameras on the SR-71 were able to distinguish the individual dimples on a golf ball on the golf course at Lowry AFB, Colorado...with the aircraft itself being several hundred miles west of the California coast. ;)

[hitman]

Hey IK...do you think the Air Force and the DoD will ever declassify the true airspeed of the SR-71?

[Guest IguanaKing]

Nope, I don't believe they ever will. :music_whistling: I must also mention that several MiG-25s have fallen to enemy fire, but not a single Blackbird has been lost to that.

[AlexHunter]

Nope, I don't believe they ever will. :music_whistling: I must also mention that several MiG-25s have fallen to enemy fire, but not a single Blackbird has been lost to that.

 

Sr -71 splendid machine, but very expensive, apropos of the fact that does not have losses the thrush, so in it was current one task,reconnaissance and that it ceased to fly to the reconnaissance in THE USSR after several interceptions its MIG-31 and because of this ceased actively to be used as intelligence officer.

 

 

site in the Russian language http://www.testpilot.ru/russia/mikoyan/mig/31/mig31.htm

«That entered into service MiG-31 became worthy rival the American reconnaissance aircraft Sr -71a in the Far East and in the Transarctic. If up to 1984 the pilots 365- GO iap (brought down the South Korean Boeing 707 in 1978.), being armed with those become obsolete Su -15, for a long time they were helpless against the intelligence officers of the type Sr -71, then the reseeding to the new Su-27 and MiG-31, broke "seventy first" to fly in their section.The interception, which occurred on 8 March, is characteristic: pair MiG-31 so "processed" Sr -71 in the neutral waters, that that, without having accomplished task, left to its base. 27 May 1987 in the Transarctic to crew MiG-31 in the composition of gv.kapitana Of yu.N.Moiseyeva and gv.kapitana O.A.Krasnova (72-1 GIAP) it was necessary to carry out combat action on reconnaissance aircraft Sr -71 and to extrude it far into the neutral waters. MiG-31 they call the basic reason for withdrawal Sr -71 into the "resignation".»

[Guest IguanaKing]

It was decided at that time that satellites could do a better job in the role of simply monitoring the usual areas in the USSR. A few were brought back to service, however, when it became apparent that an aircraft was still needed for tactical reconnaisance in other areas of the world.

 

Every time I saw the SR-71 it was difficult to believe that I was looking at an aircraft that was designed in the 50's. :D

[Pilotasso]

They were de-activated, adn then activated back again several times in the 90's, but they were eventualy deactivated for good.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Yup...now they've got TR-1s and UAVs to do reconnaisance with, along with J-STARS and Rivet Joint aircraft.

[AlexHunter]

It was decided at that time that satellites could do a better job in the role of simply monitoring the usual areas in the USSR. A few were brought back to service, however, when it became apparent that an aircraft was still needed for tactical reconnaisance in other areas of the world.

 

Every time I saw the SR-71 it was difficult to believe that I was looking at an aircraft that was designed in the 50's. :D

 

In vain you so, in 80 years was many reconnaissance missions which satellites they did not manage. SR-71 flew along our scopes and engaged in mainly technical secret service(radio) and tried on durability air DEFENCE of country by the acts of provocation flying in our air space (as pleased Americans if often our height secret service agent flew in their air space thus such sizes that able to carry a nuclear weapon on a side??, I think questions are not present!). SR-71 was by prominent air which passed time, though he and 50 years. Now just America goes back to this type of machines only on other already level is a shock pilotless bomber with the hypersonic engine. And fortunately, we also have old good MIG-31, which in the renovated form is capable to resist new threats.

[Guest IguanaKing]

These tests were engaged in by both sides of the cold war. I hope you aren't suggesting that the US was the only one testing defenses. I have plenty of Tu-95 photographs taken over NATO airspace.

 

What is this pilotless, hypersonic bomber you refer to?

[AlexHunter]

These tests were engaged in by both sides of the cold war. I hope you aren't suggesting that the US was the only one testing defenses. I have plenty of Tu-95 photographs taken over NATO airspace.

 

What is this pilotless, hypersonic bomber you refer to?

 

see on their site http://www.darpa.mil/

 

this piece from the tape of news (in the Russian)http://www.rol.ru/news/misc/spacenews/03/07/04_010.htm

The agency of promising defense developments (DARPA) of the Defense Ministry OF THE USA declared about the beginning of the realization of project FALCON (Force Application and Launch from the Continental United States).Within its framework it is planned to develop the fundamentally new type of armaments - hypersonic bombers.They can take off directly from the territory OF THE USA and during two it is hour to deliver the impact at any point of planet, which is been located from the air base at a distance to 16700 km.

[Pilotasso]

There were plans for a Super SR-71 capable of mach 5 but they were shelved.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Alex, DARPA is a highly secretive government agency, anything on their web site that is not supernet, should be taken with a grain of salt. As for the supernet content...well...nobody here is going to comment on that, even if any of us DID have access to it, which we do not. The USAF had plans for a hypersonic bomber in the early 60's as well, it was called the Republic Bomber...and that was public domain info 20 years later. There are other aircraft in the rumor mill as well...the R-7 Thuderdart and TR-3 come to mind...but there is no confirmation that these exist either.