F-22 destroys the Su-27 in super maneuverbility

[Pilotasso]

I also doubt that any good number of pilots online will want to use a cobra at all. ;)

They know they can do it, but will they do it once they get into combat?

I have yet to see anyone willing to do that without fearing losing precious speed to run away or to reach the target.

 

Supermanueverability implies low speed, to initiate the turn and no aerodynamic controll during the manuever, i.e. you will become exposed during several seconds untill you regain energy, and the flanker has one major disavantage at it: It an enourmous airframe you can spot and aim your weapons at, specialy when it looks like standing still. Any good pilot will avoid this and make a fluid fight turning and twisting as fast as he can, and as umpredictable as he can, and thats a regime other fighters in the east and west can easely overtake given enough engine power and skilled piloting.

[GGTharos]

I've seen a few people try it now and then when you're on their tail. It almost always ends up with them full of bullets or a sidewinder (Thanks for becoming an immobile target Bob!)

 

And, Alex Hunter, the F-18 doesn't need to do a Cobra. Its handling at high-AoA is undisputed ... period. ;)

[SVK_Fox]

Yes, right, unfortunately it wasn't very goot for the Russian engines either, something we're just now finding out eh? Maybe there wa sa -really- good reason why you didn't see certain aircraft do Cobras beind 'we can't do it' ...

 

 

 

 

F-18 can hold 80 AoA all day. What are you talking about?

 

I never saw F-18 doing cobra. Thats all I am talking about.

 

This is original artcile about F-18 and Su-27 in China sea from book Best of the best. I will transalte it.

"Súčka si neskor zalietali spolu s Austrálskymi F-18 v Juhočínskom mori pričom pri predvádzaní manévrov museli súčka zapnúť forsáž iba na jednom motore aby F-18 za nimi vôbec stačila. Nato začali manévrový boj s F-18. Akceleráciou a manévrovateľnosťou úplne vypudili Hornety z oblohy. Viktor Pugačev ukázal za ním letiacemu Foxovi čo znamená kobra v manévrovom vzdušnom boji. Z rýchlosti 370 km/h zbrzdil na 120 km/h a "zakobril". Fox lišiacky zahol vľavo, než sa stačil ale spamätať, už mal Pugačeva za sebou. Ten po istom zostrele nasadil plnú forsáž a premenil sa na malú bodku na obzore."

 

"Su flyed next time with (Australian) F-18 in South China sea. During fly Su`s turn on afterburner only on one engine because F18s were not able to join.

After that they started fight. Su`s outclassed F-18 from the sky. V. Pugachev showed to Australian pilot Fox (who was behind Pugachev) what cobra does it mean. From 370 km/h Pugachev slowed down to 120 km/h and made Cobra. Fox turned left but when he look after turn around, Pugachev was behind him. " So I am not sure that F-18 is able to do maneuvres like Su. I know that Pugachev is amazing pilot, but as he said: "F-18 and Mirage 2000 are only aircraft that are close to Su-27 in maneuvres. But they are not able to achieve AoA like Su-27 during low speed maneuvres. "

 

Sorry for my translation, I hope you understeand.

[GGTharos]

Your translation is fine; already seen F-18s do the 'walk' at 80KTS, under -full- control of the pilot :)

[SVK_Fox]

Your translation is fine; already seen F-18s do the 'walk' at 80KTS, under -full- control of the pilot :)

 

Thanks, thats cool, Iwould like to see it, dont you know some link or some adress where I can find some videos? I love F-18 and need to see it :)

[GGTharos]

I saw it on an air show, but I will try to find a video or youtube or something :)

[AerialHawk]

What a bunch of crap. Really, you you-know-your-nationality need to quit the you-know-the-nationality is superior to everything bullshit.:mad:

[bSr.LCsta]

Has anybody seen Raptor performing kulbit or something close to that nameuver?

 

yeah there is a video of that its over 100meg and its called "raptor high AOA" or something, the raptor is at about 20,000 feet though. Chickens need to do it on after take off at 1000m like the MIG-OVT.

This threads rocks more harder than the 50 similiar ones before it!

[pappavis]

Just to chirp in quite late, the F-22 will outperform the Su-27. Quite weird that is, if one consider that the F-22 takes about 25 years to catch up on the Su-27 :lol:.

[Pilotasso]

Thats funny when everybody uses the expression "catch up" when comparing a 4rth gen fighter with another that desperatly needs upgrades.

[Ukr_Alex]

Thats funny when everybody uses the expression "catch up" when comparing a 4rth gen fighter with another that desperatly needs upgrades.

 

Well we are talking about maneuverbility ;)

[AlexHunter]

I also doubt that any good number of pilots online will want to use a cobra at all. ;)

They know they can do it, but will they do it once they get into combat?

I have yet to see anyone willing to do that without fearing losing precious speed to run away or to reach the target.

 

Supermanueverability implies low speed, to initiate the turn and no aerodynamic controll during the manuever, i.e. you will become exposed during several seconds untill you regain energy, and the flanker has one major disavantage at it: It an enourmous airframe you can spot and aim your weapons at, specialy when it looks like standing still. Any good pilot will avoid this and make a fluid fight turning and twisting as fast as he can, and as umpredictable as he can, and thats a regime other fighters in the east and west can easely overtake given enough engine power and skilled piloting.

 

Not a question, I too doubt of expediency of application of the given maneuver, a question not in it, a question in that, can or not? My opinion, that really best air fighter now at us in Russia modernized МИГ-31 (БМ) and not modernized too, Is very powerful complex on destruction of any air purposes including purposes executed on technology a stealth, and in the modernized variant it is capable to work and on the perspective AirSpace purposes, the probable opponent;).

[Guest IguanaKing]

Thanks, thats cool, Iwould like to see it, dont you know some link or some adress where I can find some videos? I love F-18 and need to see it :)

 

You might try looking for some Blue Angels videos on the internet. One of their F-18s does the maneuver GG spoke of at every airshow performance. I'm not sure his speed is even as high as 80 knots though, I think its even slower than that. :)

[AKULA_OPTIMUS]

I´ve seen an F-18 doing that maneuver last month on a air show. Amazing:thumbup:

[cristiano]

Mig-35 with 3D TVC owns.

[Ardillita]

Congratulations!!!!!!! finally america could cachup with the su27 habilities.

but... the video of the super flanker with vectorial trust still seem to me to have more maneuverability, has the f22 improved that????

[AlphaInfinity]

Pretty cool video. As for Russian aircraft vs US aircraft, why even have the discussion? The Russians are designing aircraft for India these days. They can't even afford to keep the military funded. Half the Russian navy is rusting away and they just cancelled two more submarine projects. The Cold war is over, and I for one, having grown up during the cold war am greatfull.

[GGTharos]

We've been over this before - MiG-35 isn't even close to being imagined as operational ;)

[GGTharos]

Congratulations!!!!!!! finally america could cachup with the su27 habilities.

but... the video of the super flanker with vectorial trust still seem to me to have more maneuverability, has the f22 improved that????

 

Ever heard of an F-16 doing a Cobra? It has - (edit) it wasn't before the flanker, it was around 89. Granted, it was a maneuverability test aircraft.

 

For some reason, the USAF did NOT consider this to be a necessary capability for its aircraft.

[Ardillita]

Thats funny when everybody uses the expression "catch up" when comparing a 4rth gen fighter with another that desperatly needs upgrades.

 

 

Very very accurate, 500% agree, some people are happy because a suposed to be 4th generation aircraft has finally done a maneover that fighter with "needed upgrades" can do since many years. I still have not seen a raptor do a cobra at about 15 meters altitude passing in front of people watching.

 

Very funny isn´t it?

[Ardillita]

Thanks, thats cool, Iwould like to see it, dont you know some link or some adress where I can find some videos? I love F-18 and need to see it :)

 

 

hey... there is not such link ;)

 

Let´s leave "them" with the happiness of haveing made an "american cobra" jajajajaja

[Ardillita]

Ever heard of an F-16 doing a Cobra? It has - (edit) it wasn't before the flanker, it was around 89. Granted, it was a maneuverability test aircraft.

 

For some reason, the USAF did NOT consider this to be a necessary capability for its aircraft.

 

 

Sure.... sure... At least 3 people here have requested you to show us that in some video, for sure must be one video right? PLEASE, show it to us, I beg you... jajajajajajaja

[GGTharos]

Very very accurate, 500% agree, some people are happy because a suposed to be 4th generation aircraft has finally done a maneover that fighter with "needed upgrades" can do since many years. I still have not seen a raptor do a cobra at about 15 meters altitude passing in front of people watching.

 

The latest Su-27 variants are 4th gen. The Raptor is 5th gen.

Interestingly enough, the Raptor doesn't need to demonstrate this capability in order to have it, and it has already demonstrated controllability in conditions where the flanker has none. If you can't see it in all the raptor videos, you must be either blind, or you don't know what you're talking about :)

Naturally, this is a product of thrust vectoring, and as such any aircraft with TVC will be able to claim the same thing - in other words, there's nothing revolutionary about what the Raptor can do, like there was nothing revolutionary about the Cobra.

 

Very funny isn´t it?

 

 

Would you think it funny if you, as the F-22's pilot, were told that if you do with with a 100 million dollar plane, you will never get to fly again?

[ARM505]

We really, *really* need BS to be released. This thread is so much better than the 50 similar threads before it, really! Promise!

 

Perhaps we could now start comparing how the F22 pwns everything else in, say, 'green' recyclable materials, ie how much more environmentally friendly it is? Or perhaps we could have a 'pilot comfort' shoot-out, where the F22's seat is shown to be much more superior to any other seat ever made! Or perhaps we can have an argument about how it has superior tyre life to all other planes in the known universe! Or possibly how superior its paint schemes are!

 

Or.....perhaps I should just not read these threads :) Doh! I just can't keep from hoping that there may be nice video's, or (heaven help me!), actual information in them!

[Ardillita]

GGTharos please please, we are stil, waiting your video or at least a link of f18 or f16 makeing a cobra as you told us they can do. Do you mean that those planes can do a cobra and the Blue Angels never use it in an aerobatic show????? Please boy... come down to earth