ECM upgrades

[jaguara5]

Where is located on the HOTAS stick the mentioned in the second table ''stby emit'' switch?

[Gliptal]

So the only purpose of the A position for the DRM switch is to disable the PANIC throttle button?

 

Also, is it correct that the V light for the jammer i ON when the jammer is in standby, but OFF when it's active or switched off entirely? Wouldn't the opposite make more sense?

Edited October 5, 2016 by Gliptal

[Zeus67]

So the only purpose of the A position for the DRM switch is to disable the PANIC throttle button?

 

Also, is it correct that the V light for the jammer i ON when the jammer is in standby, but OFF when it's active or switched off entirely? Wouldn't the opposite make more sense?

 

The jammer lights will be reworked.

[myHelljumper]

V is for veille : standby.

 

Wouldn't it make more sense if the veille was a warm-up mode and then the [] a hotas selected activation off by default ?

 

BTW I liked the crossed C or F the RWR screen, it could be displayed in the center of the screen...

[Zeus67]

V is for veille : standby.

 

Wouldn't it make more sense if the veille was a warm-up mode and then the [] a hotas selected activation off by default ?

The jammer does not emit any signal in Veille mode, but it is not a warm-up.

 

It is safer to have HOTAS activation on by default. When you turn on the jammer you want to use it immediately without having to do a second button push.

 

BTW I liked the crossed C or F the RWR screen, it could be displayed in the center of the screen...

I'm defining how to implement this but they won't be in the center. Since that is the critical zone. If implemented they will be shown in the outer limits of the RWR.

[Azrayen]

Hi

 

Wow, so many inputs... :)

 

Let's try to shed some light:

1/ AFAIK there is no "C" or "F" on the RWR display IRL

2a/ The status of the Chaff and Flares (remaining qty...) is shown by a panel that is not modeled by Razbam (= non existent in DCS)

2b/ OTOH, we have the Éclair control box in DCS (which IRL is seldom used); I support Razbam's decision to use it all the time, the counters it display are most practical.

3/ There is no voice announciator on the M2000. That's one of its beloved characteristics, and noticeable difference vs US (Betty) and RU (Nadia) aircraft. Voice announciator was introduced on the Rafale.

 

I'll come back later on the topic of the decoys management, programs and so on.

 

About consistency: I agree with microvax and zerO_crash, we need this.

So regarding the status lights (below the RWR display):

- Light Off = system is Off / not powered

- Light On = system is On

- Light Blinking = system is in BIT test, or damaged = powered but not able to work

 

V light (short for Veille=StdBy) is about the "listening" part of the jammer; as soon as the jammer system is powered (even if not emitting), V light is On.

BR light (short for Brouillage=Jamming) is about the "emitting" part of the jammer; as soon as the jammer system is actively emitting (=jamming), BR light is On.

DA light is about the RWR, as soon as the system is available, DA light is On.

D2M light is about the MAWS, this system is not available at the moment, but when it will be, I expect the same principle as DA light.

LL light (short for Lance-Leurres=Decoy dispensers) is about the decoy system. As soon as the system is ready to release decoys, the LL light is On. Indicating the remaining number of available decoys should be done through the Éclair control box (and only there, no need for 2 times the same information in the cockpit + it's ~realistic with the caveat of the panel modeled in DCS).

 

 

About the Jammer: Zeus, I propose the following table (based on your model):

Choice made #1: as PCM mode is not simulated (I support this decision, it would have little to no sense in DCS current environnment), I made the [] and PCM positions of the selector strictly identical, hence the "[] or PCM" line.

Choice made #2: the pilot can look at his PCCM panel to know how he set the jammer switches (BR switch + VEI/[]/PCM selector). But he cannot look around in the cockpit to know the position of his HOTAS jammer pushbutton. So the BR light is most useful (and consistent with adjacent lights!) if it only lights when the jammer is actually emitting.

 

 

++

Az'

Edited October 5, 2016 by Azrayen

[Gliptal]

Hi

 

Wow, so many inputs... :)

 

Let's try to shed some light:

1/ AFAIK there is no "C" or "F" on the RWR display IRL

2a/ The status of the Chaff and Flares (remaining qty...) is shown by a panel that is not modeled by Razbam (= non existent in DCS)

2b/ OTOH, we have the Éclair control box in DCS (which IRL is seldom used); I support Razbam's decision to use it all the time, the counters it display are most practical.

3/ There is no voice announciator on the M2000. That's one of its beloved characteristics, and noticeable difference vs US (Betty) and RU (Nadia) aircraft. Voice announciator was introduced on the Rafale.

 

I'll come back later on the topic of the decoys management, programs and so on.

 

About consistency: I agree with microvax and zerO_crash, we need this.

So regarding the status lights (below the RWR display):

- Light Off = system is Off / not powered

- Light On = system is On

- Light Blinking = system is in BIT test, or damaged = powered but not able to work

 

V light (short for Veille=StdBy) is about the "listening" part of the jammer; as soon as the jammer system is powered (even if not emitting), V light is On.

BR light (short for Brouillage=Jamming) is about the "emitting" part of the jammer; as soon as the jammer system is actively emitting (=jamming), BR light is On.

DA light is about the RWR, as soon as the system is available, DA light is On.

D2M light is about the MAWS, this system is not available at the moment, but when it will be, I expect the same principle as DA light.

LL light (short for Lance-Leurres=Decoy dispensers) is about the decoy system. As soon as the system is ready to release decoys, the LL light is On. Indicating the remaining number of available decoys should be done through the Éclair control box (and only there, no need for 2 times the same information in the cockpit + it's ~realistic with the caveat of the panel modeled in DCS).

 

 

About the Jammer: Zeus, I propose the following table (based on your model):

Choice made #1: as PCM mode is not simulated (I support this decision, it would have little to no sense in DCS current environnment), I made the [] and PCM positions of the selector strictly identical, hence the "[] or PCM" line.

Choice made #2: the pilot can look at his PCCM panel to know how he set the jammer switches (BR switch + VEI/[]/PCM selector). But he cannot look around in the cockpit to know the position of his HOTAS jammer pushbutton. So the BR light is most useful (and consistent with adjacent lights!) if it only lights when the jammer is actually emitting.

 

 

++

Az'

+1

[Zeus67]

Hi

 

Done. Except for joining the [] and PCM functionality. It will take me some time to get rid of the checks so they will remain as before in order to avoid any bug:

 

PCM = always ON.

[] = controlled by HOTAS.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Zeus67

[rrohde]

Will the Auto mode be made available later, too? Just wondering. Great update so far! :)

[Gliptal]

Wher's the HOTAS switch located?

[Zeus67]

Will the Auto mode be made available later, too? Just wondering. Great update so far! :)

 

Yes, but you have to be aware that it will run through your available chaff and flare stores really fast. Just using them in SA can deplete them really fast.

 

BVR2 and BVR 3 do really make a number on the chaff.

 

With 112 chaff you can use BVR2 nine times and BVR3 six times before you use all your chaff. In contrast you can use BVR1 eighteen times.

[Zeus67]

Wher's the HOTAS switch located?

[Zeus67]

Hi

 

Wow, so many inputs... :)

 

Let's try to shed some light:

1/ AFAIK there is no "C" or "F" on the RWR display IRL

2a/ The status of the Chaff and Flares (remaining qty...) is shown by a panel that is not modeled by Razbam (= non existent in DCS)

2b/ OTOH, we have the Éclair control box in DCS (which IRL is seldom used); I support Razbam's decision to use it all the time, the counters it display are most practical.

3/ There is no voice announciator on the M2000. That's one of its beloved characteristics, and noticeable difference vs US (Betty) and RU (Nadia) aircraft. Voice announciator was introduced on the Rafale.

 

I'll come back later on the topic of the decoys management, programs and so on.

 

I'll wait for your input on this topic.

 

About consistency: I agree with microvax and zerO_crash, we need this.

So regarding the status lights (below the RWR display):

- Light Off = system is Off / not powered

- Light On = system is On

- Light Blinking = system is in BIT test, or damaged = powered but not able to work

 

I agree, but here I have this slight problem.

LL Off is no brainer, the CMD is off.

 

The problem is when the system is powered because the DRM switch controls how it operates and while in the real aircraft the pilot only needs to extend his hand in order to check switch position that is really hard to do in DCS.

[Gliptal]

Thanks.

 

Is there a newer reference for the HOTAS buttons and layout?

[Zeus67]

Thanks.

 

Is there a newer reference for the HOTAS buttons and layout?

 

The manual has not been updated, yet. :cry:

 

I am trying to get new keyboard bindings so you can manage the DRM and DRP buttons.

 

Jammer HOTAS button already exists in the keyboard and joystick binding lua files.

[Zeus67]

I made the following change to the default decoy program:

 

 

CCM 1 = Close Combat Mode 1. Mainly to be used when the aircraft you are facing only carry IR guided missiles, like the SU-25.

CCM 2 = Close Combat Mode 2, To be used in close combat situation when you are dealing with aircraft capable of carrying both IR and Radar guided missiles like the F-15 and SU-27.

 

The logic in this program table is combat modes: BVR --> CCM --> AG --> Flare dump.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Zeus67

[iLOVEwindmills]

The problem is when the system is powered because the DRM switch controls how it operates and while in the real aircraft the pilot only needs to extend his hand in order to check switch position that is really hard to do in DCS.

 

Perhaps display the program selected next to either the remaining IR/Chaff count on the CMS box in the left of the pit? There should be a bit of room left. Otherwise maybe in some corner of the HUD?

 

imo its extremely important that its in a position where it is easy to check the setting, because it is such a critical setting and so hard to check the 'normal' way with the games restrictions

[Tarres]

@Zeus, with this implementation, is the Eclair pod recognized as a "Countermesures pod"?

I remenber that you said that the team were waiting for a proper "implmentation on the ED side" to make the Eclair pod "fully functional"

 

If yes and I´ve understood the sytem, the amount of CM will be:

Parachute equipped: Spirale:112+16. Defined as fixed in the M2000.lua. No changes could be made in the ME.

Eclair: 18+16 added to the Spirale, total: 130+32. Defined as fixed. No changes could be made in the ME.

 

Only one thing that I don´t understand is the "Arret" position of the DRM and the ability to use the Programs but no the "Emergency" button. It´s a bit contradictory.

 

It´s great to see how this module becomes better and better.

[Zeus67]

Let's go through a flight and see how the new system can be used.

 

I am using the following video:

 

We have a M-2000C in three different engagements.

 

While in transit the pilot should have the DRM to SA and the DRP to BVR1 (6 chaff in a single cycle).

 

At 1:50 our pilot is jumped by a SU-27. So he would have used the PANIC button to release chaff and flares.

Afterwards he gains control of the fight so he sets the DRP to CCM2 (1 Chaff + 1 Flare).

 

At 2:00 he uses CCM2 to evade another attack.

 

Bandit down and another one appears

 

At 3:21 he uses PANIC to evade the enemy missile since he has not seen the bandit yet.

 

At 3:45 he uses CCM2.

 

Bandit down and RTB.

 

At 6:27 jumped by A M-2000C! Again PANIC and evade.

 

At 6:42 he can use either PANIC or CCM2 several times.

 

By this time his flare count is critical so at best he should have about 3 or 4

 

At 6:55 CCM2 is the only option he has.

 

Enemy shot down by friendly aircraft.

 

Battle over and RTB.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Zeus67

[Zeus67]

@Zeus, with this implementation, is the Eclair pod recognized as a "Countermesures pod"?

I remenber that you said that the team were waiting for a proper "implmentation on the ED side" to make the Eclair pod "fully functional"

 

Sadly no. That is something that ED must do.

 

If yes and I´ve understood the sytem, the amount of CM will be:

Parachute equipped: Spirale:112+16. Defined as fixed in the M2000.lua. No changes could be made in the ME.

Eclair: 18+16 added to the Spirale, total: 130+32. Defined as fixed. No changes could be made in the ME.

This is true. Although the Éclair is not recognized as a countermeasures pod it still is recognized as a pod so we define a virtual countermeasures pod when you load it and we load the additional 18+16.

 

Also the system is fixed. You cannot edit the amount of chaff and flares that the aircraft carries with or without the éclair pod.

 

Only one thing that I don´t understand is the "Arret" position of the DRM and the ability to use the Programs but no the "Emergency" button. It´s a bit contradictory.

Me neither, but although the label says A for "Arret" it probably should say M for "Manual", which in this case it makes more sense.

 

It´s great to see how this module becomes better and better.

Thanks for the compliment.

[Tarres]

Thanks to the team for this great first module and for the efforts to stablish this type of communication with the community.

 

Regarding the "A", or as you say the "M", the differences would be, if I understand correctly:

 

A: manual selection of program and release of CM.

SA: semi auto. This is the point that I don´t understand. What´s the difference? Does the "Spirale" system select the program and the pilot "consent" the release of CM?

Auto: the "Spirale" suite selects the program and release the CM according to the threat. Not available yet, WiP.

[Zeus67]

Thanks to the team for this great first module and for the efforts to stablish this type of communication with the community.

 

Regarding the "A", or as you say the "M", the differences would be, if I understand correctly:

 

A: manual selection of program and release of CM.

SA: semi auto. This is the point that I don´t understand. What´s the difference? Does the "Spirale" system select the program and the pilot "consent" the release of CM?

Auto: the "Spirale" suite selects the program and release the CM according to the threat. Not available yet, WiP.

 

In AUTO, the system automatically releases the selected program when the RWR gives a locked or launch warning.

When the D2M is active it will release a PANIC if a launch is detected.

 

In SA, semi-auto, you are the one who controls when to release either the selected program or the PANIC.

 

AUTO is seldom used since in battle it can dispose of all the chaff and flares at the beginning of the engagement.

[vparez]

Hi Zeus,

 

Just in case you missed what I asked earlier: the DRP switch in the cockpit currently turns in a continuous manner, will you be changing this to a sequence of discrete positions? It would be easier to manipulate with the mouse if it is discrete positions (like the radio knobs or INS mode knob).

 

Also, if you don't mind, what is this panel that Azrayen was mentioning which isn't modeled?

 

Keep up the good work! This module is by far my most favorite!

[ZHeN]

Well... you will have to deal with programs when releasing manually too...

 

I'm afraid that the current manual option will no longer be available upon update.

 

what ???? noooooooooo

[jojo]

what ???? noooooooooo

 

Come on buddy. If you want to release chaff or flare one by one you will just have to program it :smilewink: