Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

[Tibet]

I seem to be banned on teamspeak? Not really sure whats up with that... haven't played on the server in awhile.

 

 

If its possible to appeal, let me know what information you'd need from me.

[levanoga]

 

How does the server handle TK? Currently there is no way to know if it was Player or AI who killed a unit. In fact there is zero feedback from any kills across the map.

 

Unfortunately this just exponentially raised the difficulty for helos in the game unless you are on the overpop side.

 

Under this new change it's even be possible for someone to go around TK without as much as a warning. This is going to lead to massive griefing I fear.

 

 

Hopefully saner heads prevail and at least bring back some of the unit kill feedback.

 

 

SimpleRadio + GCI is your solution, if you don't know what you are assaulting then the problem is not the server since it has website and Windows gadget that tracks the status of ground objetives.

[Dagger71]

 

SimpleRadio + GCI is your solution, if you don't know what you are assaulting then the problem is not the server since it has website and Windows gadget that tracks the status of ground objetives.

 

But what about Team killing?? That's more important than any server feedback. How does the server track TK? What is the threshold for kick/ban?

[microvax]

But what about Team killing?? That's more important than any server feedback. How does the server track TK? What is the threshold for kick/ban?

 

We simply assume there is no intentional teamkilling, if there is in a obvious way, well, we will find out, check the track if need be.

 

Asking GCI mostly resolves the doubts about what happend.

 

 

I still really advocate giving a10c and ka50 to both sides btw.. Not because balance between frames is not there, simply because the a10c not beeing on red is for example for us a reason not to jump over to Red.

 

Its kinda annoying since playing with no opposition is not really fun. We played red for some time, but we cant stay red forevar and thus denying our 10c pilots their main frame.

 

If that changed we, and probably more then none would probably consider changing to red.

 

I like the nato vs pact Idea, but lets be honest, its simply not viable in DCS atm. Viggen on both sides is already ridiculous in that regard.

 

Keeping su27, f15, mig29, mig21, f5 side seperated is a good thing imho, but for the a10c and ka50 I think it simply doesnt work well. I also miss the tactical flexibility we had with all a2g planes on all sides before.

 

 

And AJS37 on forward airbases plox, or at least more slots at the sides airfields would be nice. It really ferries fast, but then more slots would be nice. :)

[104th_Maverick]

How many units does Open conflict/!04th have in each mission ?

 

 

More than 1000 ...

[Dagger71]

We simply assume there is no intentional teamkilling,

 

 

I'm really sorry to hear that. Unfortunately since I'm currently only flying the Ka50, I'm stuck on a massively underpop side with little to no GCI or comms. So I doubt I will take part anymore.

 

This is a really radical change from previous versions (I am positive I played on BF a little during round 9 and server feedback was turned on.), since I think I played since BF2. The underpop desperately needs some sort of feedback as to when fighters are in the area or something to make it even worth playing.

 

I hope it will change before round 10 starts.

 

good luck with the server!

[microvax]

;3056761']More than 1000 ...

 

Hmm, current variant of blueflag has 2568 units overall.

 

 

With the nonexistant documentation on the DCS engine its basically a big guessing game and unit amount could be a factor, could be none in this scenario.

 

Given DCS is basically running everything but audio in a single thread AFAIK, there _has_ to be a scaling factor with the number of units. Might be worth trying the whole thing with just half the map actually beeing part of the mission and see how that goes.

Also it might be the way DCS handles zones, again something that might be worth testing,

putting all units in 40% of the Area.

 

 

Ideally with 50 players especially the first _should_ not make any difference, since 50 players are not going to make high frequency of data processing on many unit [groups] necessary, but knowing how DCS is optimized in general, I would just guess the optimising employed, if at all, is not reducing the linearity that much.

For the second test scenario it should perform considerably worse, given DCS is single threaded, and more units _will_ require higher frequency data processing. If it doesnt, zoneing is probably the issue.

 

 

I want just to remind everyone that basically the terrible lag came back with an DCS patch, not with any changes in the scripting. So I doubt its something the Buddyspike team is doing wrong.

 

Problem, even if one can find a good performance metric to measure performance, its probably not going to change things. Because ED undoubtedly knows the state of DCS MP and its simply not their priority atm.

Edited February 20, 2017 by microvax

[microvax]

I'm really sorry to hear that. Unfortunately since I'm currently only flying the Ka50, I'm stuck on a massively underpop side with little to no GCI or comms. So I doubt I will take part anymore.

 

This is a really radical change from previous versions (I am positive I played on BF a little during round 9 and server feedback was turned on.), since I think I played since BF2. The underpop desperately needs some sort of feedback as to when fighters are in the area or something to make it even worth playing.

 

I hope it will change before round 10 starts.

 

good luck with the server!

 

I am not speaking as or for the event organisers, I just employed the we as speaking for a group of people believing that the amount of intentional TKs is ignoreably low atm.

 

 

I indeed know the problems of borderline imbalanced numbers. And I wish we would have the opportunity to bring balance to the force without shooting ourselves in the foot, but thats basically not possible as long as a10c and ka50 stay this way.

 

 

For the kill messages, I do not think they are a bad Idea in every situation, there is missions and servers where its perfectly reasonable to have them on and it would be counterintuitive to turn them off, but in Blueflag, where the focus lies with operational thinking, I love the non feedback approach.

 

Having to keep the SA without the messages is way more fun imho then having a text history tell you.

Unfortunately, as you pointed out thought, thats kinda getting overrun atm by the massively stacked numbers.

[Dagger71]

Having to keep the SA without the messages is way more fun imho then having a text history tell you.

 

Let's just agree to disagree. Flying anything that doesn't have A2A radar or missile launch warning system is no fun at all. In the real world, AWACS or other assets would be telling the helo exactly what other aircraft is in the area, at what alt and heading.

 

KA50 has no SA (neither does the other helos, but I only fly KA50 atm), when only the underpop side has the KA, then it makes it unplayable since you cannot rely on other players.

 

I'd come back to play underpop if we at least got some server feedback.

[Cisco]

Yeah, if anyone is experiencing network issues (packetloss, ping issues, etc.) i would love to have a look at a traceroute.

[QuiGon]

Let's just agree to disagree. Flying anything that doesn't have A2A radar or missile launch warning system is no fun at all. In the real world, AWACS or other assets would be telling the helo exactly what other aircraft is in the area, at what alt and heading.

 

It's the same in BlueFlag. If there is no one acting as AWACS, then it's an organizational problem of the team and not a server problem.

[OperatorJack]

borderline imbalanced numbers.

 

Understatement of the century :lol:

[Frostie]

I indeed know the problems of borderline imbalanced numbers. And I wish we would have the opportunity to bring balance to the force without shooting ourselves in the foot, but thats basically not possible as long as a10c and ka50 stay this way.

 

 

For the kill messages, I do not think they are a bad Idea in every situation, there is missions and servers where its perfectly reasonable to have them on and it would be counterintuitive to turn them off, but in Blueflag, where the focus lies with operational thinking, I love the non feedback approach.

 

Part of the problem is the organised numbers one major example is RvE, most of these players if i'm correct are BlueFlag veterans that have developed friendships on BF and have moved on and joined that respectable squad. Now the balance is usually set in favour of the side these guys choose. Perfect example was Saturday, I took a 6 ship of my buddies up against the Blue Hoarde vs little red and pretty much emptied the server of blue within an hour.

 

As for kill messages, they worked fine before why not now. There is the aspect of knowing when strikers/choppers are working but surely this is intel that makes up for lack of GCI due to dwindling numbers. I've always been an advocate of no kill messages but spending all day in work and coming home to not have your ego pruned is a bummer. :D

Seriously though the great thing that kill messages has always given is rivalry, some great pilots bring a fear factor and the knowledge of shooting these guys down brings that element of friendly rivalry that is being lost with all the lack of GK! and S! messages. All we see now is bitching and moaning and a definite detachment of open friendly co-operation/banter between the sides from new players.

[levanoga]

You have the 104th for that or your own server.

 

Proper server settings for Blue Flag should be:

-no chat box

-no F10 map position

-no kill messages

-no status popup messages

 

The problem with player numbers would be reduced if the side selection script would be for each server restart instead of the whole testing phase/round.

[Tibet]

I seem to be banned on teamspeak? Not really sure whats up with that... haven't played on the server in awhile.

 

 

If its possible to appeal, let me know what information you'd need from me.

 

 

Apparently it was just my default ts identity that was banned? Is this issue specific to me or have others experienced it?

[*Rage*]

Nothing is a better motivator than a good rivalry. Kill messages provide that rivalry and help foster team spirit. I vote for turning them back on.

[microvax]

Part of the problem is the organised numbers one major example is RvE, most of these players if i'm correct are BlueFlag veterans that have developed friendships on BF and have moved on and joined that respectable squad. Now the balance is usually set in favour of the side these guys choose. Perfect example was Saturday, I took a 6 ship of my buddies up against the Blue Hoarde vs little red and pretty much emptied the server of blue within an hour.

 

As for kill messages, they worked fine before why not now. There is the aspect of knowing when strikers/choppers are working but surely this is intel that makes up for lack of GCI due to dwindling numbers. I've always been an advocate of no kill messages but spending all day in work and coming home to not have your ego pruned is a bummer. :D

Seriously though the great thing that kill messages has always given is rivalry, some great pilots bring a fear factor and the knowledge of shooting these guys down brings that element of friendly rivalry that is being lost with all the lack of GK! and S! messages. All we see now is bitching and moaning and a definite detachment of open friendly co-operation/banter between the sides from new players.

 

Yeah, it is true that quite a few of us came together via BF and that flying on BF is a pretty big part of RvE. We had quite some internal discussions before we did go red the first time, because exactly that, we are a pretty big block of reasonably well organised people which has the potential to turn the tables in many situations.

 

For testing we agreed on 50/50 red/blue, but atm even with us not beeing on blue for that long its back to pretty onesided numbers. Major part for us not flyin red more is really the A10c. For CAP we are pretty much evenly distributed Flanker and Eagle fanboys.

I mean you guys would probably have a hard time choosing to fly f15s on blue as well, if red was in the favour all the time. One does that for so and so long for the goal to balance the thing a bit, but after certain amount of time you want back to your favourite airframe. :D

 

 

The lacking messages imho make the thing a whole lot more fun, you dont know if the SA3 TR is really down, you dont instantly have feedback on what is taking off and landing where, more specifically, you dont know who it is. I like that a lot, especially for the a2g aspect thats a huge plus. You can actually pull off sneak attacks without instantly beeing swarmed.

 

I agree whole heartedly that friendly rivalary is a lot of fun, but I think in BF we are better off with them off, since the aspect is less on a2a, than on flying an operation with multiple roles.

 

Just as an example, in 104th I think they make a lot of sense, the a2a part is way more emphasized there, and there is a lot of space for that friendly rivalary, without limiting other aspects.

 

 

 

On the topic of friendly rivalry, Toss bombing on the viggen is a marvelous anti runway tool. ;)

No need for 50 000ft dive bombing anymore. :D

Edited February 20, 2017 by microvax

[Dagger71]

You have the 104th for that or your own server.

 

Proper server settings for Blue Flag should be:

-no chat box

-no F10 map position

-no kill messages

-no status popup messages

 

The problem with player numbers would be reduced if the side selection script would be for each server restart instead of the whole testing phase/round.

 

So I guess you don't want ANY helos flying on BF??

 

What happened, why the sudden radical change from previous versions???

[levanoga]

Nothing is a better motivator than a good rivalry. Kill messages provide that rivalry and help foster team spirit. I vote for turning them back on.

 

GCI can tell you who your opponent is so kill messages are redundant. It also alerts everyone on both teams who is doing something and where.

 

So I guess you don't want ANY helos flying on BF??

 

What happened, why the sudden radical change from previous versions???

 

What prevents you from asking what the objective is on either TS or SR? You have the livemap on the Buddy Spike website, the PC desktop app, TS and SR and you need even more handholding?

 

If the enemy outnumbers you is it a good idea to push with helos? No. The only helo work in those circumstances is flying an Mi-8 and setting up defences near airfields and other objectives.

[Dagger71]

GCI can tell you who your opponent is so kill messages are redundant. It also alerts everyone on both teams who is doing something and where.

 

 

 

What prevents you from asking what the objective is on either TS or SR? You have the livemap on the Buddy Spike website, the PC desktop app, TS and SR and you need even more handholding?

 

If the enemy outnumbers you is it a good idea to push with helos? No. The only helo work in those circumstances is flying an Mi-8 and setting up defences near airfields and other objectives.

 

Ok well looks like this is turning into an insult/pissing contest so I'll just leave it. Yes its my fault for flying a helo on a combined arms server. sorry for even thinking I could do that.

 

Also, I've been on the red side for a few days now and haven't seen any GCI, so your assumption that the server will be full of comms with fighter vectoring, bogey calls and ingress/egress flight assignment is completely false.

 

BF was one of the best events going for DCS. It was full of very helpful, cordial members who saw the need to balance server accessibility, fun with changes to create false sense of realism.

 

Again though, when did Buddy Spike/BF so radically change??? I do not remember when this complete transformation occurred. Not to mention the hostility shown by these so called Buddy Spike spokesmen. What happened??

Edited February 20, 2017 by Dagger71

[levanoga]

 

Ok well looks like this is turning into an insult/pissing contest so I'll just leave it. Yes its my fault for flying a helo on a combined arms server. sorry for even thinking I could do that.

 

Also, I've been on the red side for a few days now and haven't seen any GCI, so your assumption that the server will be full of comms with fighter vectoring, bogey calls and ingress/egress flight assignment is completely false.

 

BF was one of the best events going for DCS. It was full of very helpful, cordial members who saw the need to balance server accessibility, fun with changes to create false sense of realism.

 

Again though, when did Buddy Spike/BF so radically change??? I do not remember when this complete transformation occurred. Not to mention the hostility shown by these so called Buddy Spike spokesmen. What happened??

 

 

Its your fault for flying a helo straight into enemy fighters and expect it to survive. Even more with no comms and no GCI to inform you what is happening around you.

 

Its the RED teams fault for not having communication and a dedicated GCI, instead of moaning why not go GCI? The role is critical in both offense and defence.

 

BF is still one of the most popular servers and we still help people, like now we just told you not to suicide with an attack helo when you have 15 enemy fighters near you area. You should adapt to the battlefield - if there are too many fighters chances of your survival are slim and its better to use another role to help the team.

 

BF didn't change, players got more experienced. Now stop being a drama queen. As I said, a good idea would be to make the side choosing happen on every restart so players can switch each round to balance it out, but this complicates matters with other scripts.

[Cisco]

I would like to see everything enabled on both sides for everything. May the best pilot win regardless of airframe or wepons. Would also fix the issue that players choose blue because of F15 and vise versa. This har allready been done with viggen and m2000 so i dont see why mig-29, su-27, su-33 and f-15 cannot be included.

[Dagger71]

 

Its your fault for flying a helo straight into enemy fighters and expect it to survive. Even more with no comms and no GCI to inform you what is happening around you.

 

Its the RED teams fault for not having communication and a dedicated GCI, instead of moaning why not go GCI? The role is critical in both offense and defence.

 

BF is still one of the most popular servers and we still help people, like now we just told you not to suicide with an attack helo when you have 15 enemy fighters near you area. You should adapt to the battlefield - if there are too many fighters chances of your survival are slim and its better to use another role to help the team.

 

BF didn't change, players got more experienced. Now stop being a drama queen. As I said, a good idea would be to make the side choosing happen on every restart so players can switch each round to balance it out, but this complicates matters with other scripts.

 

 

Ok from your condesending reply I am understanding that the new direction BF is taking is now

 

1 You want to fly a specific aircraft? too bad, we force you to take a side

2 Your side is massively underpop?, too bad, you must scramble with what you have and don't complain

3 no GCI? too bad suck it up and face the wrath of the opposition with superior air power, and don't even think of using A/G aircraft

 

Understood loud and clear

[CrashO]

3 no GCI? too bad suck it up and face the wrath of the opposition with superior air power, and don't even think of using A/G aircraft

How about, No GCI? Take one for the team and be one yourself at times..

 

On blue there are very few people who actually like to be GCI, but a lot of people (including myself) do the task when necessary, because it just doesn't make sense to have a ton of uncoordinated people doing random circles. And if their not on comms, bark at them in chat to come online. A few months ago 20% of blue was on SR during most times, nowadays it's > %75. But if no one at red takes the task on them and moans about it whilse they keep being part of the problem.. nothing while change :doh:

[Dagger71]

How about, No GCI? Take one for the team and be one yourself at times..

 

On blue there are very few people who actually like to be GCI, but a lot of people (including myself) do the task when necessary, because it just doesn't make sense to have a ton of uncoordinated people doing random circles. And if their not on comms, bark at them in chat to come online. A few months ago 20% of blue was on SR during most times, nowadays it's > %75. But if no one at red takes the task on them and moans about it whilse they keep being part of the problem.. nothing while change :doh:

 

 

But there's the catch 22!! GCI is useless without having helos drop off radar sites and helos can't fly when they have no idea what is flying on opposite side.

 

So we are stuck in a circle with no way of getting out.