American 77 Flight Data Recorder Released (9/11 Pentagon)

[Pilotasso]

In the kenedy assassination it took 1 shooter and it took one kill, not 3000, and there were no pilots planes, agents, no shadow goverment, rogue govermental organization nor was the airforce diverted away from new York so that robot planes could be sent to the air.

 

Its a bit arrogant to think that the US strikes had to be internal conspiracy and not external terroris organizations when there were at least 4 other countries striken in large scales terrorist action for much the same reasons US was.

 

What horrible trade-off are we talking about? The country suffered as a whole, yes, but if anyone in power had part in something like this, do you really think they care about what happens to the citizens/soldiers/etc?

 

You have no idea have you? Why do you think there are image advisors? Politicians are known to be populist and lie to get the votes, then sudenly they take murder rampant to wipe thousands of electors off the surface of the earth? Image what that will do to his image.

 

The US was so skillfull hiding strategical secrets that now we know there are secret prisons in europe and that Saddam had no WMD .

As bad and clumsy as GWB and his administration was, Im still waiting to be enlighten as what would the US gain from blasting part of its major city to oblivion with this goverment.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Image? Hell...if this conspiracy theory were ever proven (which would be quite easy considering the numbers of people who would have had to have been involved)...image is the last thing the Bush administration would have to worry about. They'd all be strung up by their respective private parts.

 

I find it interesting that many of the same people who believe these conspiracy theories are the same ones who laugh at the Bush administration for not finding WMDs in Iraq. The situation is embarrassing to say the least, so why wouldn't an administration which is apparently capable of deception on such a MASSIVE scale as to fabricate and even plan the events of 9-11...simply fabricate evidence of having found WMDs in post-invasion Iraq? It seems that suddenly, their magical, omnipotence at deception fizzled out when it was convenient to the critics.

[Dudikoff]

As for ignoring the warnings. Do you have any idea how many terror threats the US government received on a daily basis? They have to prioritize, based on what is feasible. A coordinated attack of this type was not deemed as feasible because it had not yet been demonstrated using the same means.

 

This just makes it easier to close one eye ;) But if you look at my post, I did say it as an example. As I said, I just wanted to discuss one or two arguments, I never said that I stand by this or that.

[Pilotasso]

I find it interesting that many of the same people who believe these conspiracy theories are the same ones who laugh at the Bush administration for not finding WMDs in Iraq.

 

Sorry my friend but I think you tripped here. One thing is different from the other and Saddam had no WMD's, not that he didnt want them but the fact is, that was a fluke excuse and yet another mistake in the series by the US goverment, that will only weaken the consipracy theories evem more.

 

Who "laughs at WMD's not being found" is not being too coherent with himself when at the same time believing the goverment was incompentent enough to do the 1st thing but terribly inteligent for the 2nd.

 

Infact if you view both things from this perspective you could arrive to the conlcusion that the same reason was behind US failiure to find WMD's and preventing the terrorists attacks on the US soil.

[Guest IguanaKing]

OK...understood. But the conspiracy theories all say that the aircraft that hit WTC 1, WTC 2, and the Pentagon were either unmanned, or didn't exist at all. That's why its important to consider the number of people involved that suddenly disappeared one day and didn't actually die in those events.

 

Was the threat ignored? Quite probably. Was it ignored for malicious reasons? I seriously doubt it was.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Sorry my friend but you tripped here. One thing is different from the other and Saddam had no WMD's, not that he didnt want them but the fact is, that was a fluke excuse and yet another mistake in the series by the US goverment, that will only weaken the consipracy theories evem more.

 

Who "laughs at WMD's not being found" is not being to coherent with himself whe at the same time believing th goverment was incopentent to 1 thing but terribly inteligent for the other.

 

Actually, I didn't trip there if you read the post again. ;) We know at this point that Saddam apparently did not possess WMDs, and its a huge embarrassment for the administration. What I'm saying is, for something like this, wouldn't it have been easy for them to fabricate evidence of having found some? I mean, afterall, they apparently made the passengers of 3 Boeing 757s disappear to some tropical island somewhere...why not fake a few nuclear weapons found in Baghdad or Ramadi? Get my point? :smilewink:

 

What I'm saying is that the US government has made a serious error, yet they couldn't cover it up by making up post-invasion evidence. That, to me, seems like it would have been MUCH easier to accomplish than the 9-11 conspiracy. :D

[Dudikoff]

The situation is embarrassing to say the least, so why wouldn't an administration which is apparently capable of deception on such a MASSIVE scale as to fabricate and even plan the events of 9-11...simply fabricate evidence of having found WMDs in post-invasion Iraq? It seems that suddenly, their magical, omnipotence at deception fizzled out when it was convenient to the critics.

 

Nice one, but here's one contra. You assume that if there was some foul play, the government was behind it. *IF* some "conspiracy" did in fact take place, I wouldn't say the government was involved. I don't think that they have any real power over organisations that might organise something like this. You see, the governments come and go, but organisations like this stay. It's much easier to just use the government by feeding them false info, for instance. Of course, this is strictly hypothetically speaking.

[Pilotasso]

Actually, I didn't trip there if you read the post again. ;) We know at this point that Saddam apparently did not possess WMDs, and its a huge embarrassment for the administration. What I'm saying is, for something like this, wouldn't it have been easy for them to fabricate evidence of having found some? I mean, afterall, they apparently made the passengers of 3 Boeing 757s disappear to some tropical island somewhere...why not fake a few nuclear weapons found in Baghdad or Ramadi? Get my point? :smilewink:

 

What I'm saying is that the US government has made a serious error, yet they couldn't cover it up by making up post-invasion evidence. That, to me, seems like it would have been MUCH easier to accomplish than the 9-11 conspiracy. :D

 

 

I get your point but I think that assumption is a bit too vitamined thats why it never ocurred to me.

 

The US was not the only entity searching for such weapons in Iraq. If suddenly GWB pulled a rabit out of the hat and show hardware pulled out of the sand while no one was watching, it would raise a few eyebrows everywhere. Besides that, they would have to fake up parts fabrication serials wich would have to be european or admitedly US (not israeli thats for sure :D ) . Now, what would you preffer? To be caught as shamefull sore liar or impopular for having the fault all along anyway? Or worse, to have fabricated evidence before and after the war.

[Guest IguanaKing]

All those actively involved would have had nothing to lose. It was a multi-national coalition, and if evidence HAD been fabricated post-invasion, I find it extremely unlikely that any of those nations would have cried foul. If any did, they would have been few and far between, and most-likely would have been shunned as crazies by the other nations. Not that its right, but that's the way it is with international politics. Governments are much easier to persuade than masses of individuals. ;)

[Guest IguanaKing]

Nice one, but here's one contra. You assume that if there was some foul play, the government was behind it. *IF* some "conspiracy" did in fact take place, I wouldn't say the government was involved. I don't think that they have any real power over organizations that might organize something like this. You see, the governments come and go, but organisations like this stay. It's much easier to just use the government by feeding them false info, for instance. Of course, this is strictly hypothetically speaking.

 

I don't assume that foul play could only be acted upon by the government. My opinions on this matter are focused on the current conspiracy theories only...which all involve a high-level, DIRECT conspiracy by the US government. If you are referring to internal, corporate conspiracies...well...keep digging, because there is ALWAYS going to be some disgruntled group of employees who will be able to provide solid proof of wrong-doing. :smilewink:

[Dudikoff]

I don't assume that foul play could only be acted upon by the government. My opinions on this matter are focused on the current conspiracy theories only...which all involve a high-level, DIRECT conspiracy by the US government. If you are referring to internal, corporate conspiracies...well...keep digging, because there is ALWAYS going to be some disgruntled group of employees who will be able to provide solid proof of wrong-doing. :smilewink:

 

I'm just debating, but, I'd rather think of it as some group of groups of people with money and power sharing common interests, first of all, the will to keep them. If something like this actually existed, I bet that a lot of these conspiracy ideas would be instigated by themselves. That way, it is easier for people to dismiss all of the ideas from the conspiracy camp and then the opposite camp must be right, i.e. there's no conspiracy whatsoever, terrorists are the only factor in this, etc.

 

For example, the JFK thing. If it is impossible that Oswald killed him alone, somebody else was in on it and the official report is a lie. But what would that mean? Accepting that, people would have to accept that that some other power structure besides the legally elected government exists over which common people don't have any influence. That's a scary thought and might lead to chaos so it's actually much easier to dismiss it all and just continue with our daily lives. It's easier to play it safe and live in organised illusions and close our eyes now and again than to risk chaos. We can't change anything anyway, right? :)

 

Again, I'd like to point out that this is just debating and strictly hypothetical so please don't take it seriously in any way.

[Guest IguanaKing]

No problem, Ijozic, I actually share some of the same opinions. In this particular example, there is a great deal of misinformation being given by the media...a powerful group of people. To this day, they would have us all believe that security camera videos of the Pentagon didn't exist...when it was them that aired those same videos in the hours that followed the events of that day. Then, suddenly they say they never existed? Do they really think our memories are that short?

[Gripes]

... Shrub pulled the plug...

 

LMFAO... Shrub... I like the sound of that...

 

Anyways, right now I`m in a distrust limbo, I`ll keep it that way... just in case...:noexpression:

[tflash]

OK, let me share the truth with you all. Evidently, a supercruising F-22 stealth fighter crashed into the Pentagon. That is why you do not see an aircraft in the video (it is invisible). It also explains why the impact sems smaller then from an airliner.

 

To cover up for this desaster and out of fear to loose Congress funding, another F-22 is then tasked to down an airliner to cover up.

 

Years later, this pilot got remorse and starts to become talky. They intercept his communications and then a diabolic plan is conceived: they put something in the sofware so that the next time he lands, the canopy doens't open and he is trapped inside before being able to speak out. A CIA team then just opens the canopy with a chainsaw and he is abducted to an unknown location with a C-130 transiting through Europe.

 

There is ample video evidence on the canopy incident on the web.

 

The most horrible thing to know is that these dark forces are still among us, and now want us to believe the F-35, in fact a fat-ass slowly that is as stealthy as Chirac is humble, they want us to believe this plane is the supercruising ballerina of the skies.

 

I wonder what dirty tricks they will plot to make this story "happen".

[ALDEGA]

are the same ones who laugh at the Bush administration for not finding WMDs in Iraq.

I'm not laughing.

[Guest IguanaKing]

I'm not laughing.

 

It was a figure of speech, of course nobody thinks its funny...at least I hope they don't. :cry:

 

BTW...here's a PDF about the WTC 7 collapse.

 

Edit: Sorry for the delay, had it ready to go, but I forgot how horrible this site is for copying and pasting.

 

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/WTC%20Part%20IIC%20-%20WTC%207%20Collapse%20Final.pdf#search=%22con%20edison%20wtc%207%22

[Dmut]

enough is enough. please continue your chit-chat on another site.