Interesting article about plasma and ECM.

[SVK_Fox]

I am not sure if somebody linked this but read this, it is so interesting. Popular not so science, but also nice to know something new.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/plasma/index.htm

http://www.aeronautics.ru/plasmamain.htm

http://www.aeronautics.ru/plasma04.htm

[GGTharos]

'Plasma stealth' has long been a hyped up myth :)

[Pilotasso]

oh noes not again, here we go.... :D

[SVK_Fox]

ok.

 

I dont know that it was here, sorry guys. But one think, I send this article to my friends from my job, they are working on radars and are specialist on radars and systems used by Air Traffic Services and in military. They said that it isnt myth at all, because it can work but they are not sure, how to ionize to achieve that stealth effect. They also said that it can be also reversal effect and you will see airplane better on radar screen :smilewink: . But it is only logical calculation of them. Thats all. I dont want to make some fire here. So this is only my annotation.

[GGTharos]

The fact that the effect EXISTS is true.

'Plasma Stealth' is a myth, and will be for along time ;)

[nscode]

It also creates heat :)

[Force_Feedback]

It also creates heat :)

 

No need for window or cabin heaters then :lol:

[Pilotasso]

But you can fry bacon on the wind shield. :D

[Ardillita]

I have read many articles about this, don´t know why some blind people say "it is a myth".

There are no proofs that the system is workin, but also there are no proof that the theory on the articles is wrong (in fact the theory explained is completly right, just that nobody knows for sure if the technology to control that is already working as the articles said)

 

The correct statetment I think would be to say "it could be posible, but we have no proofs", don´t you agree?

 

Some people think the only stealth thing that will exist is something called raptor...

[D-Scythe]

I have read many articles about this, don´t know why some blind people say "it is a myth".

There are no proofs that the system is workin, but also there are no proof that the theory on the articles is wrong (in fact the theory explained is completly right, just that nobody knows for sure if the technology to control that is already working as the articles said)

 

The correct statetment I think would be to say "it could be posible, but we have no proofs", don´t you agree?

 

Some people think the only stealth thing that will exist is something called raptor...

 

Well, only the current, conventional method of stealth retains low observable characteristics to all forms of long-range airborne sensors (radar, IR, etc. - even it's paint is designed to break up its shape to optical sensors).

 

Plasma stealth, even if it does potentially work, severely compromises the ability of an aircraft to hide from IR/EO sensors. Nonetheless, the theory behind the concept is very fascinating, and I hope someone can put it into practice effectively within the next couple decades.

 

BTW, glowing isn't that bad in some cases - one of the reasons why it's so easy to see an aircraft high above is because it doesn't glow ;)

[GGTharos]

I have read many articles about this, don´t know why some blind people say "it is a myth".

 

Because some people have worked in a related field and are qualified to say so to some degree?

 

There are no proofs that the system is workin, but also there are no proof that the theory on the articles is wrong (in fact the theory explained is completly right, just that nobody knows for sure if the technology to control that is already working as the articles said)

 

And that's why plasma stealth is a myth ;) It will be a -long- time before they can make it work, -if- indeed they -can- make it work.

 

The correct statetment I think would be to say "it could be posible, but we have no proofs", don´t you agree?

 

Yeah sure.

 

Some people think the only stealth thing that will exist is something called raptor...

 

 

*shrug*

[Guest IguanaKing]

Plasma takes an enormous amount of energy to create, so what kind of power source are we thinking is going to be carried aboard such an aircraft...all while still leaving the aircraft light enough to fly and still be able to carry a combat payload? Secondly, no matter how much anyone wishes that this could work, it disrupts communications AND has a tendancy to direct electromagnetic waves to places that you don't want them...it is a simple law of physics that we cannot get around no matter how many times we click our heels. Plasma is electrically conductive, so many of the systems onboard the aircraft that need to communicate with the outside world would fry themselves. Plasma is the reason that radar waveguides in high altitude aircraft are pressurized. At lower pressures, the transmitter power ionizes the air, creating plasma. Since the plasma is conductive, it usually shorts the magnetron to the airframe...and the magnetron goes up in smoke. Apply cabin pressure to the waveguide, on the other hand, no more plasma and your radar continues to work without damage. Plasma is the reason that, to this day, the most brilliant scientists in the world still haven't figured out how to keep from losing communications with reentering spacecraft. THAT is why the practical application of this concept is a myth. Hehe...I may be one of the "blind", but apparently I have a little understanding of how this works. :music_whistling:

[nscode]

Plasma takes an enormous amount of energy to create

 

mmm... no. not that much :)

[SVK_Fox]

Another interesting thing that I found is research of IR warning system tested on SUs, does anybody know more about that?

[Guest IguanaKing]

mmm... no. not that much :)

 

If you're going to create enough of it to surround the entire aircraft it does. ;) But, IIRC, that wasn't the intention of plasma stealth anyway. I think it was all going to be contained inside the radome as a means of masking the most-reflective surface on the aircraft...the plate.

[SUBS17]

I dont know that it was here, sorry guys. But one think, I send this article to my friends from my job, they are working on radars and are specialist on radars and systems used by Air Traffic Services and in military. They said that it isnt myth at all, because it can work but they are not sure, how to ionize to achieve that stealth effect. They also said that it can be also reversal effect and you will see airplane better on radar screen :smilewink: . But it is only logical calculation of them. Thats all. I dont want to make some fire here. So this is only my annotation.

 

The creation of Plasma causes objects to vanish completely not just off radar.:music_whistling:

[Pilotasso]

mmm... no. not that much :)

 

Your right, it only takes mach 10 for that. :)

[golfsierra2]

Plasma takes an enormous amount of energy to create, so what kind of power source are we thinking is going to be carried aboard such an aircraft...all while still leaving the aircraft light enough to fly and still be able to carry a combat payload?

Good point !

Plasma is the reason that radar waveguides in high altitude aircraft are pressurized. At lower pressures, the transmitter power ionizes the air, creating plasma. Since the plasma is conductive, it usually shorts the magnetron to the airframe...and the magnetron goes up in smoke. Apply cabin pressure to the waveguide, on the other hand, no more plasma and your radar continues to work without damage.

I don't think so. Humidity is the reason for pressurization of waveguides. Humidity will cause condensed water which will cause overheating and damages the waveguide (called arcing). Actually, a drop of water can cause the electromagnetic waves travelling along the inner surface of a waveguide (skin-effect) to burn holes into the metal. To overcome this, the waveguides will be filled with pressurized dryed air or another gas, pressurized because then no humidity will enter the waveguide if a leakage occurs.

And this not only affects high altitude aircraft, but any radar set, even ground based.

Plasma is the reason that, to this day, the most brilliant scientists in the world still haven't figured out how to keep from losing communications with reentering spacecraft.

Correct !

THAT is why the practical application of this concept is a myth. Hehe...I may be one of the "blind", but apparently I have a little understanding of how this works. :music_whistling:

 

Some more to read about the origins of this myth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_Project_1.44

[nscode]

The creation of Plasma causes objects to vanish completely not just off radar.:music_whistling:

 

Yes... and it sends two people 40 years in the future :megalol:

 

reminded me to watch that movie again... liked it when I was a kid :)

[Pilotasso]

what movie your talking about BTW?

[golfsierra2]

what movie your talking about BTW?

 

Probably "The Philadelphia Experiment"

 

Forget about this nonsense...

[Pilotasso]

oh, I saw part of that moovie. Long ago. Not a glorious end and it had a rather low quality sequel where an F-117 ended up in Hitlers hands to blow New york up and defeat the USA. Its story was arround a story of similar contours of the french resistance, with the time traveler guy who had no knowelege advantage whatsoever from being in his position., just a normal guy like others surrounding him. Kinda weird. Dunno why they bothered to resort to a time traveler at all if anybody else would fill his role.

[SUBS17]

Yes... and it sends two people 40 years in the future :megalol:

 

reminded me to watch that movie again... liked it when I was a kid :)

 

It actually happened except for the 2 guys going into the future bit(those guys disappeared). Some of the crazy things that happened included a guy whos body was halfway through a wall when the ship reappeared.

[VVanks]

Interesting... a big ball of plasma...

 

IR sensors would be fried.

[Guest IguanaKing]

It actually happened except for the 2 guys going into the future bit(those guys disappeared). Some of the crazy things that happened included a guy whos body was halfway through a wall when the ship reappeared.

 

Yup, many of the details shown in the Philadelphia Experiment were real events. If any of those sailors DID travel through time, we'd probably never know it...they'd probably end up in some loony bin somewhere. :D