WildBillKelsoe Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 With dive bombing (Stürz), mV gives lots of room for precision. Either SC-250/500 are equally effective and precise. Has anyone tried Wagerecht (level)? How to do it and be precise too? Sent from my SM-T231 using Tapatalk AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.
QuiGon Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 With dive bombing (Stürz), mV gives lots of room for precision. Either SC-250/500 are equally effective and precise. Has anyone tried Wagerecht (level)? How to do it and be precise too? Sent from my SM-T231 using Tapatalk What's the difference between the two modes? I mean, how do they affect the aircraft/bomb? Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
WildBillKelsoe Posted November 9, 2016 Author Posted November 9, 2016 employment using Stürz (dive) or Wagerecht (level) bombing. Sent from my SM-T231 using Tapatalk AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.
saburo_cz Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 I always use Wagerecht (level) mV setting. I drop bombs from nearly level flight at low altitude with speed somewhere between 400 - 600km/h. And with this setting i have lot of time to leave bomb blast area. F6F P-51D | P-47D | F4U-1D | Mosquito FB Mk VI | Spitfire | Fw 190D | Fw 190A | Bf 109K | WWII Assets Pack Normandy 2 | The Channel | Sinai | Syria | PG | NTTR | South Atlantic F-4E | F-14A/B | F/A-18 | F-86 | F-16C | A-10C | FC-3 | CA | SC |
QuiGon Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 employment using Stürz (dive) or Wagerecht (level) bombing. Sent from my SM-T231 using Tapatalk Yeah, I'm aware of what it means (I'm german ;)), but I don't know what it actually does. How it effects the aircraft or the bombs. I always use Wagerecht (level) mV setting. I drop bombs from nearly level flight at low altitude with speed somewhere between 400 - 600km/h. And with this setting i have lot of time to leave bomb blast area. So Wagerecht sets the bomb fuse to delayed? Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
shagrat Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 No, mV (mit Verzögerung - with Delay) does. Not sure what is switched with Waagerecht (level flight). :dunno: Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)
QuiGon Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 No, mV (mit Verzögerung - with Delay) does. Not sure what is switched with Waagerecht (level flight). :dunno: Ah, yeah, right, there was a dedicated setting for delay. :doh: Haven't flown the WW2 birds in a while :music_whistling: So what does Sturz/Wagerecht do then? I always wondered about that :huh: Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
WildBillKelsoe Posted November 9, 2016 Author Posted November 9, 2016 are you kidding? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.
saburo_cz Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 I think that both settings "mv" differ between each other in exact fuse delay timing (not sure if it is in DCS too, have not measured it). And both settings "ov" are without any delay. settings means Sturz and Wagerecht works it for Dora and Kurfürst well for me F6F P-51D | P-47D | F4U-1D | Mosquito FB Mk VI | Spitfire | Fw 190D | Fw 190A | Bf 109K | WWII Assets Pack Normandy 2 | The Channel | Sinai | Syria | PG | NTTR | South Atlantic F-4E | F-14A/B | F/A-18 | F-86 | F-16C | A-10C | FC-3 | CA | SC |
Whisper Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 are you kidding? I don't think he is :) What he means : Yeah, I'm aware of what it means (I'm german ;)), but I don't know what it actually does. How it effects the aircraft or the bombs. Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth. Specs : i7 6700K / MSI 1070 / 32G RAM / SSD / Rift S / Virpil MongooseT50 / Virpil T50 CM2 Throttle / MFG Crosswind. All but Viggen, Yak52 & F16
WildBillKelsoe Posted November 9, 2016 Author Posted November 9, 2016 well I don't know. Maybe I should ask his question. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.
DefaultFace Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 What saburo said. Not sure if the numbers are still the same but Waagerecht MV is/was ~15 seconds and Sturz MV is/was ~8 seconds. Sturz OV is definitely instantaneous. Only thing im not 100% on is whether waagerecht OV is also an instant or just a very short delay fuse or also instant. If it is I would imagine the only difference would be some sort of fuse setting that gives the bomb a better chance of exploding at a low impact angle. Otherwise can't think of any reason to have it double up. I don't know much about the specifics of the bombs of that time though so consider the last part speculation.... 9./JG27 "If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS "In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin
Kurfürst Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 IIRC it had something to do with the arming of the bombs fuzes... perhaps before OR after repeasey - but cant recall exactly. http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse! -Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945.
QuiGon Posted November 10, 2016 Posted November 10, 2016 are you kidding? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk No, I'm not. Im asking a question about something I don't understand. Maybe you don't understand what I'm asking, but I don't know how to express it otherwise. The other users seem to understand what I mean at least, but apparently no one really knows what these settings actually do (especially wagerecht ov <-> sturz ov). Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!
WildBillKelsoe Posted November 13, 2016 Author Posted November 13, 2016 the right half of that knob is fully for level release. the left half is for dive release. both types can have fuse settings for the bombs as instantaneous (oV) or delayed (mV). I guess its clear if you read the manual. my question involves the accuracy with level bombing and if less accurate, how to improve accuracy and better yet how to do it in the first place (like cockpit references). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.
Screamadelica Posted November 14, 2016 Posted November 14, 2016 Fly in at about 450km/h and nice and low, use the gunsight to aim a little to the right and when the target disappears under the nose, count to 4 and push the bomb release. Usually works most of the time, although it's always a bit hit or miss with level bombing.:smilewink:
WildBillKelsoe Posted November 15, 2016 Author Posted November 15, 2016 video? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.
Chrinik Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 WW2 levelbombing was never meant to be precise. For low level releases, one should train oneself for various speeds, and find the reference points and timings, such as Screamadelica suggested. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] GCI: "Control to SEAD: Enemy SAM site 190 for 30, cleared to engage" Striker: "Copy, say Altitude?" GCI: "....Deck....it´s a SAM site..." Striker: "Oh...." Fighter: "Yeah, those pesky russian build, baloon based SAMs." -Red-Lyfe Best way to troll DCS community, make an F-16A, see how dedicated the fans really are :thumbup:
Frederf Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 Wagerecht applies 150 volts to the fuze. Sturz applies 240 volts. If you want to know what is the difference in fuze action you must tell me first which of the many fuzes it is possible to put on these bombs. In general the higher the voltage the faster all the fuze time events are occuring. oV and mV are ohne (without) and mit (with) a delay for detonation which is a few tens of milliseconds. Physically oV/mV selection determines if electricity is applies to one or both metal pins on the fuze. There is a separate safety function in most model fuze "Vz" which allows for significantly delayed detonation after impact if the normal arming time is not reached. It also varies slightly with Wag/Sturz voltage. This has nothing to do with oV/mV selection. For most bomb fuzes which may be applied to this airplane there are 3 time zones of activity: < ~1 second after release (before Vz arming) it will dud. After Vz arming but before normal arming it will delay detonation many seconds after impact. After normal arming detonation is according to oV/mV selection. What is normal arming time varies by fuze model and Wag/Sturz choice very rough numbers ~14s Wag ~7s Sturz. oV/mV choice has no influence on arming times.
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