Blown tires on takeoff

[Coxy_99]

I like that idea made me lol

 

 

 

We really need a short track, I and the ED team have tried to reproduce with no luck

 

@BIGNEWY its not just FC3 the A-10C module does exactly the same, Two guys i fly with noticed this also. We thought it was new damage physics.

 

Edit: Random failures were checked off.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Coxy_99

[BIGNEWY]

I appreciate it is different aircraft, we have a similar issue with the F-5E, but until we can reproduce it or get a track it is all guess work :)

[Coxy_99]

I appreciate it is different aircraft, we have a similar issue with the F-5E, but until we can reproduce it or get a track it is all guess work :)

 

No worries, I have mentioned it to them to get a track up.

[BIGNEWY]

No worries, I have mentioned it to them to get a track up.

 

thanks, the sooner we can find some decent data the quicker ED can resolve it :)

[Coxy_99]

Ive run some tests on the A-10C ill post them up tracks and logs, The puncture does not happen to A.I but it does happen to player or client on the same load out, Load outs and fuel are to near max weight,

[lemoen]

Its from going too fast. I blew my tire on the Mirage, was going around 180kts on the runway, back wheels still on the ground. The A10 probably has trouble going fast enough ;-) I've been blowing the front wheel on the Su25 too, that seems to happen when I turn too sharply while taxiing. Annoying.

[Coxy_99]

Its from going too fast. I blew my tire on the Mirage, was going around 180kts on the runway, back wheels still on the ground. The A10 probably has trouble going fast enough ;-) I've been blowing the front wheel on the Su25 too, that seems to happen when I turn too sharply while taxiing. Annoying.

 

My last post was human vs A.I ;) A-10C The SU-27 tyres also burst if you brake to hard on taxi, Ive also seen two others A10C tyres burst on take off :thumbup:

[Kapsu]

It is definitely easier to blow tires than before on F-15, but so far it have happened to me only when speed is higher than 200kts or when doing very rough landing. Are tires supposed to blow when going faster than 200kts or is this a bug?

 

I can post a short track where tires blow up during take off at ~210kts if needed.

[BIGNEWY]

is that at every airfield or just particular ones?

[Kapsu]

I have tested this at Sochi and Nellis (identical results), but it did happen on other airfields too when flying online.

[BIGNEWY]

need a short track showing it if possible

[Kapsu]

Here you go. Both 1.5.5 and 2.0.4.

 

I know its not a correct takeoff procedure, but i wanted to know at what speed tires do blow up so i went a bit too fast on purpose.

F-15 takeoff test 1.5.5.trk

F-15 takeoff test 2.0.4.trk

[mvsgas]

While Bignewy waits for you guys to load your tracks, I found some info from aircraft manual related to tires. Not sure if this is relevant, just trying to add info about RL aircraft tire life for comparison.

F-16

Heat is a primary cause of aircraft tire failure. Tires generate high temperature even during normal operations. Operating procedures which cause increased or excessive heat buildup in tires include operating at near maximum gross weights, high taxi speeds, long taxi distances, high speed/sharp turns, and excessive and/or continuous braking. The cumulative damage resulting from these procedures quickly reduces tire life and may cause catastrophic failure. In addition, pilots should brief maintenance on any instances of nose wheel shimmy or nose wheel hitting the runway hard during landing. Minimize taxi speeds and high speed turns as much as possible when operating in high temperature and/or high gross weight conditions.

 

TIRE SPEED LIMIT

The MLG tires are certified for use to 225 knots groundspeed.

The NLG tire is certified for use to 217 knots groundspeed.

 

A-10C

TIRE GROUND-SPEED LIMITATIONS.

NOSE WHEEL TIRE: The maximum NLG tire ground speed rating is 217 knots.

MAIN WHEEL TIRE: The maximum MLG tire ground speed rating is 165 knots.

 

F/A-18E

[ATTACH]152223[/ATTACH]

 

SU-27SK (translated by Esac_mirmidon, IIRC)

Nose tire 320km/h

Main tire 360km/h

 

From FAA tire maintenance training pdf

Before we go further, let’s focus on deflection. Aircraft tires operate at a very high

deflection by design. It is almost twice that of a car tire, and three times that of a truck

tire. The high deflection allows for a smaller tire to be used for the same load which helps

the designers address limited spacing in the aircraft wheel well.

With this high deflection, heat begins to build up within the tire every time the tire rolls. It

is safe to operate at this high deflection for aircraft service because aircraft tires operate

only intermittently for takeoff and landing. However, this deflection must be maintained or

heat build‐up begins to accelerate at a very rapid rate when over‐deflected. The limited roll

distance the tire can survive diminishes very fast

this is a direct link to the pdf

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjlnoe6zMHQAhVhwVQKHdnHAVMQFggaMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.faasafety.gov%2Ffiles%2Fgslac%2Fcourses%2Fcontent%2F269%2F1100%2FTire%2520Maintenance.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFWAetIrSZa6RI_5cSTdd1Tpn8mLQ&bvm=bv.139782543,d.cGw

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by mvsgas

[wasserfall]

Su27 tyres blow up also on normal take off compared 2.0 to 1,.5

[BIGNEWY]

Here you go. Both 1.5.5 and 2.0.4.

 

I know its not a correct takeoff procedure, but i wanted to know at what speed tires do blow up so i went a bit too fast on purpose.

 

thanks we will take a look.

 

edit:

 

yes looks to fast, we want to see it happening during a normal flight.

 

If the aircraft is max weight and over speed we would expect to see a tire blown. I do not know exact figures, I will try and find out

 

second edit: over 200 and you would be looking at a possible tire blow out at max weight

Edited November 24, 2016 by BIGNEWY

[GGTharos]

You shouldn't be looking at tyre blow-outs in these conditions at all AFAIK. You will need the speed with MGTOW or over MGTOW (and yes, sometimes aircraft get loaded over MGTOW).

 

This is a very incorrect condition. There are well known incidents of F-15's landing with speeds beyond 250kts - the 'one wing' landing, and 300kts for an eagle with an engine fire. The tyres were just fine.

 

Look at loaded up F-15E's ... they easily reach an F-15C's MGTOW limits and they don't suffer blown tyres.

[mvsgas]

Look at loaded up F-15E's ... they easily reach an F-15C's MGTOW limits and they don't suffer blown tyres.

 

The F-15E would have different tires AFAIK. Most aircraft have several different tires.

 

F-15 34.5x9.75-18

http://www.parttarget.com/2620-01-055-4600_2620010554600_008-723-3.html/-16AAA7FA-A80B-4B9E-BF49-7AF502B0137B

 

F-15E 36x11.0-18

36x11.0R18

http://www.parttarget.com/2620-01-299-1924_2620012991924_001-809-0.html/-16AAA7FA-A80B-4B9E-BF49-7AF502B0137B

http://www.parttarget.com/2620-01-235-2028_2620012352028_36X11-0R18.html/-16AAA7FA-A80B-4B9E-BF49-7AF502B0137B

 

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.goodyearaviation.com%2Fresources%2Fpdf%2Fdatabook_7_2016.pdf

Edited November 24, 2016 by mvsgas

[GGTharos]

Fair enough, but the point stands. You don't put tyres on your car that'll blow up at 140kph because you'll only be going 120, right? There are no tyres like that. Likewise, aircraft tyres should provide safety throughout the usable range of speeds and weights of the aircraft plus a sizable safety margin.

[mvsgas]

Fair enough, but the point stands. You don't put tyres on your car that'll blow up at 140kph because you'll only be going 120, right? There are no tyres like that. Likewise, aircraft tyres should provide safety throughout the usable range of speeds and weights of the aircraft plus a sizable safety margin.

 

As I said before, I do not know if the behavior of tires within DCS is correct or not, I am sure it will change.

But car tires, truck tires, aircraft tires, etc. are all different. And yes, aircraft have tires that will fail. As I posted earlier.

Heat is a primary cause of aircraft tire failure. Tires generate high temperature even during normal operations. Operating procedures which cause increased or excessive heat buildup in tires include operating at near maximum gross weights, high taxi speeds, long taxi distances, high speed/sharp turns, and excessive and/or continuous braking. The cumulative damage resulting from these procedures quickly reduces tire life and may cause catastrophic failure. In addition, pilots should brief maintenance on any instances of nose wheel shimmy or nose wheel hitting the runway hard during landing. Minimize taxi speeds and high speed turns as much as possible when operating in high temperature and/or high gross weight conditions.

[GGTharos]

Fair enough, thanks for the information.

[ac5]

thanks, the sooner we can find some decent data the quicker ED can resolve it :)

 

I have this problem only with the Mig-21, tested in Tonopah and Creech.

On takeoff, just above 300 Km, did not have this problem before

2.0.4. Random system failures is OFF.

[BIGNEWY]

what we need to see are very short tracks showing the issue, within normal take off parameters.

 

I can only reproduce if the aircraft's are heavy, over speed and I throw it around to put more weight on one side.

 

If I have a track I have something to work with

[JDarksword]

I'll test ASAP and will post a track if I find the tires blowing at a seemingly normal speed.

[=Mac=]

11R18 are truck tires

AFAIK, F-15 has several different tires and several wheels depending on several factors

here is a F-15A tire.

 

 

I think, if you look closely, you can see several indicators that the aircraft in your photo is on -- and has been on for quite some time -- static display. (Check out Pima Air & Space Museum in Tucson, AZ.) Often, display military equipment is not to full milspecs once released to the display area. That's not to say the a/c tire was not used in actual service on this specific type a/c, but, rather the example should not be used to authenticate actual service parts and equipment. I saw an F-4 on static display once with a narrow wing tank loaded on the centerline station. I'm sure it could have been done somehow, but I've never seen it.

Edited November 28, 2016 by =Mac=

[mvsgas]

I think, if you look closely, you can see several indicators that the aircraft in your photo is on -- and has been on for quite some time -- static display. (Check out Pima Air & Space Museum in Tucson, AZ.) Often, display military equipment is not to full milspecs once released to the display area. That's not to say the a/c tire was not used in actual service on this specific type a/c, but, rather the example should not be used to authenticate actual service parts and equipment. I saw an F-4 on static display once with a narrow wing tank loaded on the centerline station. I'm sure it could have been done somehow, but I've never seen it.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2962499&postcount=42

 

http://www.parttarget.com/2620-01-063-2361_2620010632361_008-661-1.html/-7DFAF4EC-A113-4566-850C-7A9B32C3AD5D

http://www.parttarget.com/2620-01-493-7142_2620014937142_005-723-0.html/-6EC530CE-0613-481F-BC0D-7C19062FB085

 

By the way, those tires are still if fedlog, here is the webflis link

https://www.nsncenter.com/PartNumber/34-5X9-75-18-26

 

At any rate, Mister Wolf (AKA BIGNEWY) need tracks showing the problems, if you could provide one, it would be far more productive and beneficial. I have not experience the behavior myself so CND for me.

 

what we need to see are very short tracks showing the issue, within normal take off parameters.

 

I can only reproduce if the aircraft's are heavy, over speed and I throw it around to put more weight on one side.

 

If I have a track I have something to work with

Edited November 29, 2016 by mvsgas