The Détecteur de Départ Missile (DDM)

[Esac_mirmidon]

A pain to disable?

 

It´s only a check in a box.

[Enduro14]

Lord what a bunch of cry baby squabble, Like has been said before you dont like it too bad go to servers that dont have it. Think its great a Developer adds in the OPTION to have equipment that more than likely has been used on the airframe but that isnt common knowledge. You guys want to complain about this but yet we have such a faulty IFF and Radar with the FC3 aircraft, and lets not even start on the damage model nor MISSILES

 

Bravo

[Maulkin]

I am really glad it is modelled in the sim. That being said i also would not mind if the option is disabled by default.

 

As red_coreSix said, it is more likely the mission builder will forget about the option and it will always be disabled. I wish there was a way that if a Mirage is set to CAS the it was default on but if it is CAP then it is default off with the option to turn it on. But that sounds very complicated and risky to implement.

[red_coreSix]

Lord what a bunch of cry baby squabble, Like has been said before you dont like it too bad go to servers that dont have it.

 

Have you ever had the pleasure of managing serves let alone multiple missions and having to keep them up to date and working? Sure doesn't sound like it, otherwise you wouldn't be talking like that.

[Enduro14]

Well then i suggest you make your voice more heard. If its such an issue server side submit a ticket and get the things changed.

[zaelu]

A pain to disable?

 

It´s only a check in a box.

 

Lord what a bunch of cry baby squabble, Like has been said before you dont like it too bad go to servers that dont have it.

 

If is such a little trivial thing and same for you... Why not make it default "disabled"?

 

I mean. Enduro14 can go to servers that have it enabled and Esac_mirmidon can simply check the box to enable it.

 

Seriously. Would it be the same for you guys? Because if yes... then lets kindly ask Zeus when he has time to make it like that.

[Enduro14]

totally fine having it as a option that is disabled, like many other things that are optional.

[red_coreSix]

Well then i suggest you make your voice more heard. If its such an issue server side submit a ticket and get the things changed.

 

It's not an issue "server side". The problem is that I have to edit every mirage in every mission to make it work.

[Rlaxoxo]

This thread needs to get locked it's pointless arguing over and over again

[Chrinik]

The problem with this debate is that it just dances around the main point.

 

Multiplayer fairness.

 

The rest is BS.

 

This seems more like this is dancing around the issue then any actual discussion about if it was used or not. There are several reasons why Multiplayer is a bullshit arguement for anything.

 

reason zero: should we discount everyone who sit´s in an FC3 F-15C slinging Amraams? It´s the ultimate easy-mode plane and half it´s systems either don´t work, or don´t work to spec and are thus cheating. Same with most other FC3 planes.

 

A: Multiplayer doesn´t mean jack, it´s one of the smallest parts of DCS statistically.

 

B: Multiplayer fairness does not exist.

 

C: The system, if it works as it should, will barely warn you of anything launched in normal combat perimeters.

 

D: The Mirage is gimped in BVR like no other 4th gen in the sim, if it´s true fairness you want, same plane on both sides is the only way to archieve it. So what if it has a very simplistic and restricted launch warner? You treat it like it´s the MWS system in the A-10C, which is known to not work to spec.

 

Assymetric balance is much harder to archieve and needs a mission designer who knows virtually every planes capabilities inside and out so he can weigh the pros and cons against each other.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Chrinik

[myHelljumper]

You can't talk about fairness when you put the 2000 against IRST or fox3.

[Bogey Jammer]

The possible issue is the advantage provided by this whatif feature, then the counter effect would be to ask for and allow more whatif equipments to everything else just like war thunder does.

That is what I wanted to express in the first place :music_whistling:

Edited December 24, 2016 by Bogey Jammer

[Gliptal]

Yeah MP balance makes no sense as an argument. Airquake is based around FC3 jets, and those are anything but realistic in their systems.

[TomCatMucDe]

This seems more like this is dancing around the issue then any actual discussion about if it was used or not. There are several reasons why Multiplayer is a bullshit arguement for anything.

 

reason zero: should we discount everyone who sit´s in an FC3 F-15C slinging Amraams? It´s the ultimate easy-mode plane and half it´s systems either don´t work, or don´t work to spec and are thus cheating. Same with most other FC3 planes.

 

A: Multiplayer doesn´t mean jack, it´s one of the smallest parts of DCS statistically.

 

B: Multiplayer fairness does not exist.

 

C: The system, if it works as it should, will barely warn you of anything launched in normal combat perimeters.

 

D: The Mirage is gimped in BVR like no other 4th gen in the sim, if it´s true fairness you want, same plane on both sides is the only way to archieve it. So what if it has a very simplistic and restricted launch warner? You treat it like it´s the MWS system in the A-10C, which is known to not work to spec.

 

Assymetric balance is much harder to archieve and needs a mission designer who knows virtually every planes capabilities inside and out so he can weigh the pros and cons against each other.

 

perfect. +1

[zaelu]

A: Multiplayer doesn´t mean jack, it´s one of the smallest parts of DCS statistically.

 

B: Multiplayer fairness does not exist.

 

C: The system, if it works as it should, will barely warn you of anything launched in normal combat perimeters.

 

D: The Mirage is gimped in BVR like no other 4th gen in the sim, if it´s true fairness you want, same plane on both sides is the only way to archieve it. So what if it has a very simplistic and restricted launch warner? You treat it like it´s the MWS system in the A-10C, which is known to not work to spec.

 

Assymetric balance is much harder to archieve and needs a mission designer who knows virtually every planes capabilities inside and out so he can weigh the pros and cons against each other.

 

A. Multiplayer is small now because of lack of support. Single player is meaningless in the future. This point of yours (A) is like advocating for no food in a country plagued with famine because the people are skinny anyway. Let me put this in another way: Say DCS World has a market of 1 million people and 99% are "single player". If ED wants DCS to grow to 10 million people those 9 million missing are in multiplayer market.

 

B. You confuse fairness with balance and symmetry or you are advocating cheating.

 

C. If it would be like you say you wouldn't have people freaking out and asking for thread lock etc because someone asks for this feature to be default OFF and not default ON. Do you understand the difference? There is no need to explain it to you. Simply if it is the same... and you don't want to cheat and it's useless anyway (as it should) then it should be equal to you isn't it? But it isn't. You want it On for a reason. Exploiting.

There can't be any other reason than this as it is a feature that:

a) was never ever on the plane

b ) it is suppose to be rubbish anyway

c) if it glitches offers unwanted advantage only in Multiplayer as in singleplayer is plain useless.

 

D: Mig21 is incapacitated in Ground attack role by some factors in DCS (ASP not fixed, Damage from unguided rockets and bombs not real, etc). But this doesn't mean all should carry nukes. The nukes on it are forbidden on most serious servers. Why? Because they are disabled by default. And the Mission Creator simple does not put them available on an airbase and voila! you can't take them no matter what. But for D2M is the other way around. The mission designer has to disable it manually for all the mirages in the mission.

Same for other planes. You can't fix an evil with another evil. If MWS on A10C works not as on spec we have to have D2M on Mirage... where is the logic in that?

 

I repeat.

 

If it's useless and the same for you and you don't want to exploit it then it should be the same for you to have this option default disabled and you can enable it as much as you want for your awesome single player missions or servers.

 

If is the same! Is it the same for you?

 

If you want to talk about weak arguments the argument that "was promised" is weak. If a feature for such still secret plane was promised and then was discovered not to be real... should we still implemented and ruin the plane? Then why build those plane differently from each other? Let's all have F15C and call them Mirage or Huey if we like.

Edited December 25, 2016 by zaelu

[myHelljumper]

Who said it was a cheat ????

[Rlaxoxo]

I was about to write quite a lengthy reply but then I realized ...

 

Why bother lol ... dead topic

[Bogey Jammer]

Not that dead, that's the wish of yours.

 

I have a question :

Does it have to detect flares ?

[sunski34]

It's just a possibility

 

Sorry, I read thoses last pages and I'm surprised...

 

Zeus put an option to desactivate DDM so it's perfect for all people....

 

Thanks to him.

 

Those who want to have a full realistic 2000C (I'm not sure it's possible on DCS because of classified documents) without DDM and those who want to have more possibilities....

 

So no problem at all and make missions as you want ;) to have fun !

[Chrinik]

A. Multiplayer is small now because of lack of support. Single player is meaningless in the future. This point of yours (A) is like advocating for no food in a country plagued with famine because the people are skinny anyway. Let me put this in another way: Say DCS World has a market of 1 million people and 99% are "single player". If ED wants DCS to grow to 10 million people those 9 million missing are in multiplayer market.

No, multiplayer is small because most people never touch it. There is a destinct statistical difference between MP and SP, as most people, people who aren´t even registered on the forum, use DCS as a toybox to fly around in and have fun. People still fly FC1 and 2 ffs.

 

B. You confuse fairness with balance and symmetry or you are advocating cheating.

No, you confuse DCS with some other thing entirely. What do you think happens when the F-18 drops? It´s capabilities far outmatch any other jet in the sim by far, so do you think that´s "fair"? No. You can´t talk about "fairness" at all.

 

C. If it would be like you say you wouldn't have people freaking out and asking for thread lock etc because someone asks for this feature to be default OFF and not default ON. Do you understand the difference? There is no need to explain it to you. Simply if it is the same... and you don't want to cheat and it's useless anyway (as it should) then it should be equal to you isn't it? But it isn't. You want it On for a reason. Exploiting.

There can't be any other reason than this as it is a feature that:

a) was never ever on the plane

b ) it is suppose to be rubbish anyway

c) if it glitches offers unwanted advantage only in Multiplayer as in singleplayer is plain useless.

 

Interesting that you assume I had a position on it being ON or OFF by default. I don´t seem to recall making a statement in that direction at all. I seemed to have been focused on some bullcrap multiplayer fairness argument...that´s a strawman argument if I´ve ever seen one.

 

I also like the fact you assume I want to exploit the system, or that I want it in the first place...I couldn´t care less. Off, on, doesn´t matter to me, this wasn´t the point of my argument and you KNOW it, because if it was, I WOULD HAVE MADE MENTION OF THAT!

 

And I damn well hate the fact you put words in my mouth and assume stuff I have never said. So please, have some god damned respect and stop making up strawmen.

 

My position on the D²M is that I flew the Mirage without before and back when it was up in the air if it was coming or not I didn´t care if it wasn´t. So FXXX off with your assumptions about my position on the matter.

 

And the Mission Creator simple does not put them available on an airbase and voila! you can't take them no matter what. But for D2M is the other way around. The mission designer has to disable it manually for all the mirages in the mission.

Same for other planes. You can't fix an evil with another evil. If MWS on A10C works not as on spec we have to have D2M on Mirage... where is the logic in that?

 

There is no logic in that...because you made that argument up again.

I never made that claim. And I am not a mission designer, I don´t care how much extra work they have to put in, that wasn´t my point and that is a different discussion altogether that I didn´t partake in.

 

I repeat.

 

If it's useless and the same for you and you don't want to exploit it then it should be the same for you to have this option default disabled and you can enable it as much as you want for your awesome single player missions or servers.

 

It is the same to me. I never argued otherwise. I am argueing with you because you are overreacting, misrepresenting it´s capabilities because you fear it might not be fair to you.

 

If is the same! Is it the same for you?

 

If you want to talk about weak arguments the argument that "was promised" is weak. If a feature for such still secret plane was promised and then was discovered not to be real... should we still implemented and ruin the plane? Then why build those plane differently from each other? Let's all have F15C and call them Mirage or Huey if we like.

 

I don´t even know where you are going with that anymore.

 

I´d suggest keeping your responses limited to things I said, and not stuff you made up in your head about me.

I called your fairness argument out because it´s more nebulous then the actual arguments wether it should be on or off by default, or wether it was actually on the aircraft. THOSE arguments have weight and meaning, "fairness" is a bullcrap argument.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Chrinik

[ZHeN]

why am I having D2M model (not textured) on Magic's pylons even with D2M off in the mission settings ?

[Chrinik]

The possible issue is the advantage provided by this whatif feature, then the counter effect would be to ask for and allow more whatif equipments to everything else just like war thunder does.

That is what I wanted to express in the first place :music_whistling:

 

You mean what-if equipments like the KH-66 GROM on MiG-21 or the ability to change the GBU Lasercode from the Cockpit in the A-10C, and other such features that provide clear advantages to the user of said product? I don´t see the threads attempting to stop those "features" anywhere.

 

This argument is nothing new. Nobody is adding "what if" features because someone else did...

[zaelu]

I said that there is no point in fixing an evil with another evil but you acted "offended" ( "I never made that claim." ) but now you are at this point anyway.

 

I think the most important statement of yours is this:

 

"And I am not a mission designer, I don´t care how much extra work they have to put in".

 

If you don't care about this then I see no point of your words in this topic other than asking for flame.

 

The main issue raised several times is that the D2M system being not a realistic one it shouldn't be default On. Not that it should be removed altogether or something. The rest is really not so important.

[TomCatMucDe]

Those guys who wants to forbid DDM from the module should also ask ED and Belsimtek to remove the arcade option on the A10C and the other.

 

 

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[TomCatMucDe]

Well I personally wouldn't call the DDM an arcade option but that is a good point, is the default state of the arcade mode set to on or off?

 

 

 

No the default mode ist not set on but the D2M switch is also set by default to off. Even if you didn't disable it in the settings you still don't have to switch on in the pit

 

 

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