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Spitfire Cockpit - Boxfire/Spitbox/Ottospit...


Krupi
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Hello Chaps,

 

As you can hopefully tell I am currently working on a foldaway Spitfire Cockpit :pilotfly:

 

Ottoman_Image_1.jpg

Closed

 

Ottoman_Image_2.jpg

Open

 

Ottoman_Gif.gif

 

I will be starting work on the actual frame tomorrow however I have been very slowly working on the innards over the past few months.

 

DSC_6036.jpg

 

DSC_6055.jpg

 

DSC_6060.jpg

 

Unfortunately I seem to have misplaced pictures of the throttle so I will have to take some again...

 

 

Kudos to Troll for his fabulous Simbox which inspired me "aka I stole is idea..."

 

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?t=1953

Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

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I have been pondering one of my biggest issues in recreating a 1:1 replica Spitfire Control Column and that is how to dampen/load it :(

 

At present I am looking at around ~15lbf for the elevators and ~30lbf for the ailerons however this is subject to change (There was a marked difference in the real aircraft which is why I want to mimic it).

 

Spitfire_Control_Column.jpg

 

 

The elevators force above should be fairly simple to replicate, I was looking at something like this...

 

http://www.slamproof.co.uk/epages/BT3287.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/BT3287/Categories/Deceleration_Cylinders

 

However replicating the aileron force will not be so easy...

 

Currently I am thinking along the lines of one of these....

 

http://www.slamproof.co.uk/epages/BT3287.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/BT3287/Categories/Rotary_Dampers/Continuous_Rotary_Dampers

 

Which would attach to the gearbox at the end of the column (The part which attaches to the fuselage.. see images below).

 

Capture3.jpg

 

Capture5.jpg

 

However the rotary damper could leave me with a 5% slip (No resistance from the rotary damper at the start) & an expensive design, so if you chaps could steer me in another direction/solution that would be very much appreciated! :thumbup:


Edited by Krupi

Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

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I have been trying to crack on with this project between cooking, drinking & flying the spit of course :D

 

When it comes to tools I don't always have the right stuff so workarounds have to be employed as the image below shows...

 

DSC_6158.jpg

 

But it works out okay in the end :D

 

DSC_6159.jpg

 

I could not put off the biggest job any longer and final finished the gearbox assembly, which actually went very smoothly.

 

DSC_6164.jpg

 

DSC_6165.jpg

 

DSC_6166.jpg

 

Tomorrow I will attach the pedals to the frame & start to build the box :)

 

Thanks to draken152 for inspirational use of aluminium profiles in his mind blowing Dora Cockpit :thumbup:


Edited by Krupi

Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

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Love the design and intention to this bud. Good luck with the build!

EVGA GTX1080TISC2 Black Hybrid Cooler, Asus Strix X399, Water cooled ThreadRipper 1920X, Dominator 32GB 3200Mhz,NVME Samsung 250/500GB SSDs, Corsair Air 740 case, Acer Predator 34' Gsync curved display + 3x Alienware 23inch 120hz monitors. TM HOTAS, RAZER - Tiamat,Blackwidow, Mamba, Tartarus and Oculus Rift CV1/DK2 + TrackIR5, MFG crosswinds

 

Oh and a very understanding wife.

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Hi Krupi,

 

your concept looks good I think. On the elevator you can go for a much cheaper damping solution. Search for motorcycle steering dampers on ebay. They are adjustable, have no backlash, have smooth operation and are cheap.

 

On the aileron the rotary damper is great. Unfortunately the quality ones are expensive. The cheaper ones are usually for lids and forniture doors, and not for precise mechanical components.

 

ACE controls have quite a few types, maybe they have some without backlash.

http://www.acecontrols.com/

 

In my setup Im using DEB rotaries. They are great but very expensive. I found mine on ebay for peanuts though.

http://www.debmfg.com/Aerospace-Equipment.html

 

Regarding loads:

 

Your concept to have twice the load on the aileron compared to the elevator might be right for the Spit, but it is very uncoventional and ergonomically unconfy. Usually it is the other way around. Simply because the human arm is much weaker for lateral moves than for pulling and pushing. As I know Supermarine went that way as well and increased the control loads on the elevator after the mark V and on.

 

30lbs is a lot for a constant aileron load, you might want to reconsider. Lower loads will also allow you to apply smaller and cheaper damper.

 

In real aircraft the control loads are changing all the time with the airspeed. Making controls with constant high loads are unrealistic and compromise precision inputs. In my experience low loads with plenty damping is the way to go.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]



KG13 Control Grip Building

Control Stick and Rudder Design



 

i7 8700K, Asus Z370-E, 1080 Ti, 32Gb RAM, EVO960 500Gb, Oculus CV1

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Thanks chaps :D

 

Another WW2 bird, perfect. Good luck man:pilotfly:...Haven’t you build Fw190d cockpit in the past???

 

Unfortunately I have no space for my 190 pit and I wasn't willing to compromise on the design, so it is on pause :cry:

 

Hi Krupi,

 

your concept looks good I think. On the elevator you can go for a much cheaper damping solution. Search for motorcycle steering dampers on ebay. They are adjustable, have no backlash, have smooth operation and are cheap.

 

On the aileron the rotary damper is great. Unfortunately the quality ones are expensive. The cheaper ones are usually for lids and forniture doors, and not for precise mechanical components.

 

ACE controls have quite a few types, maybe they have some without backlash.

http://www.acecontrols.com/

 

In my setup Im using DEB rotaries. They are great but very expensive. I found mine on ebay for peanuts though.

http://www.debmfg.com/Aerospace-Equipment.html

 

I knew I had forgotten to give someone else a kudos, I stole the idea of using a rotary damper from your design so Kudos to you MMaister :thumbup:

 

I don't suppose you happen to have a spare DEB rotary! :music_whistling:

 

I was actually looking at a motorcycle steering damper for the ailerons why did I not think of using one for the elevator! :doh:

 

So to clarify one of these...

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-CNC-Motorcycle-Steering-Damper-Stabilizer-For-Honda-Suzuki-Yamaha-Kawasaki-/231805952150?hash=item35f8b62096:g:DnYAAOSwKtlWjhUK

 

For the elevator. Unfortunately I do not know what size of force they can dampen?

 

How about one of these for the aileron forces?

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/C201-Steering-Stabilizer-Damper-For-Suzuki-Hayabusa-GSX1300R-GPR-V4-2008-2012-/302059265633

 

I would adapt a plate to fit on the gearbox so it would move with the elevator and a pin coming off the control column :)

 

 

Regarding loads:

 

Your concept to have twice the load on the aileron compared to the elevator might be right for the Spit, but it is very uncoventional and ergonomically unconfy. Usually it is the other way around. Simply because the human arm is much weaker for lateral moves than for pulling and pushing. As I know Supermarine went that way as well and increased the control loads on the elevator after the mark V and on.

 

30lbs is a lot for a constant aileron load, you might want to reconsider. Lower loads will also allow you to apply smaller and cheaper damper.

 

In real aircraft the control loads are changing all the time with the airspeed. Making controls with constant high loads are unrealistic and compromise precision inputs. In my experience low loads with plenty damping is the way to go.

 

I have been pondering what to do, do I mimic a high speed scenario or a low speed... regardless of which I want the difference in the two controls to be represented.


Edited by Krupi

Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

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I knew I had forgotten to give someone else a kudos, I stole the idea of using a rotary damper from your design so Kudos to you MMaister :thumbup:

 

It is my pleasure if my project gave some inspiration to others :)

 

 

 

I don't suppose you happen to have a spare DEB rotary! :music_whistling:

 

Actually I might have a 1pc around ;) Let me have a look at my inventory, and I will send you a pm about it.

 

 

For the elevator. Unfortunately I do not know what size of force they can dampen?

 

I don`t have exact info about it, but it has a very wide range. It will fit well I think.

 

 

How about one of these for the aileron forces?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/C201-Steering-Stabilizer-Damper-For-Suzuki-Hayabusa-GSX1300R-GPR-V4-2008-2012-/302059265633

 

I would adapt a plate to fit on the gearbox so it would move with the elevator and a pin coming off the control column :)

 

 

I don`t know it, but it is probably worth a try. Actually I bought quite a few stuff just for testing when I built. Some parts turned out to be great like the dampers, but some were useless.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]



KG13 Control Grip Building

Control Stick and Rudder Design



 

i7 8700K, Asus Z370-E, 1080 Ti, 32Gb RAM, EVO960 500Gb, Oculus CV1

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Kudos to Troll for his fabulous Simbox which inspired me "aka I stole is idea..."

 

He calls himself 'Goblin' on these boards... ;)

 

Seriously cool idea, Krupi! Looking forward to see how this will turn out!

I have made some adjustments to my seat, and rebuilt the SimBox for VR use...

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 5 months later...

Hey Chaps, I have been quite busy moving into new digs and having to paint etc... which I have been doing for the last few months.

 

I made myself promise not to fly in DCS until I had the majority of the rooms painted and also reached a decent step towards completing the spitfire control column. This has been torture as I have completely missed the Normandy Pre-Alpha :doh:

 

However this weekend I almost finished the apartment and made significant steps towards finishing the control column as you will see below...

 

I was able to purchase a camera button and connection for my grip, luckily it just manages to clamp around my fake "grip texture" :D

 

IMAG1126.jpg

 

Over the past few months I have been experimenting with a variety of mechanisms on the aileron control and have finally settled on a design. Unfortunately the cost of making the parts I required was insane, luckily I was able to make use of a milling machine at work after a bit of a refresher (I relived my apprentice days fortunately I have gained a lot of patience from those days :poster_oops:) and was able to pay attention long enough to make something that would do the job :)

 

IMAG1085.jpg

 

I know it doesn't look like much, I can already see the sneer on real machinists faces. However this piece of aluminium has an important job it allowed me to complete the column and send the parts off to my local powder coater who turned my odds bits of aluminium into something far more presentable :D

 

DSC_0069.jpg

 

DSC_0070.jpg

 

DSC_0071.jpg

 

DSC_0080.jpg

 

DSC_0083.jpg

 

I still have a long way to go to see my original concept come to fruiting & some parts are still rushed together experiments...

 

DSC_0082.jpg

 

DSC_0081.jpg

 

However once the columns and buttons have been connected I am one step closer to my goal of immersion and my first flight in DCS in months :pilotfly:

 

FYI there is roughly a 50% difference between the elevator and the aileron control in an attempt to mimic something like the actual controls, hence the need for four springs :)


Edited by Krupi
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Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

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Far out mate, you can afford those pedals, the extrusion and all that but not a jig saw to make those cutouts? Damn I would send you mine if i were still living in the UK just too much postage from Australia.

 

You pit looks like a great start, love the foldaway design, the way you have designed it, your metalwork.

 

Look forward to seeing the progress.

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Far out mate, you can afford those pedals, the extrusion and all that but not a jig saw to make those cutouts? Damn I would send you mine if i were still living in the UK just too much postage from Australia.

 

You pit looks like a great start, love the foldaway design, the way you have designed it, your metalwork.

 

Look forward to seeing the progress.

 

LOL in my defence I rushed those bits to get it setup, I will be making a pieces actually fit for this build at some point :D

 

That thing is gorgeous!

Great job!

 

Incredible craftmanship Sir :thumbup: Keep the pictures flowing

 

Cheers

Hans

 

Thank you :)

Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit

Project IX Cockpit

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  • 2 weeks later...

That column is a work of an Art and I'm mightily impressed/jealous.

EVGA GTX1080TISC2 Black Hybrid Cooler, Asus Strix X399, Water cooled ThreadRipper 1920X, Dominator 32GB 3200Mhz,NVME Samsung 250/500GB SSDs, Corsair Air 740 case, Acer Predator 34' Gsync curved display + 3x Alienware 23inch 120hz monitors. TM HOTAS, RAZER - Tiamat,Blackwidow, Mamba, Tartarus and Oculus Rift CV1/DK2 + TrackIR5, MFG crosswinds

 

Oh and a very understanding wife.

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  • 8 months later...
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