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Flettner 282 Helicopter Simulator Suggestion!!!


chbn
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Greetings from Brazil!

 

I recently posted a thread inside the DCS WWII Europe 1944 and 1945 Forum in russian language two weeks ago, but I didn't have any feedback or comments at the moment. So, I would like to know what all the guys here think about my suggestion!

 

Well, as a big fan of helicopter simulators, I would like suggesting to DCS developers team, a simulator of the Flettner Fl-282 Kolibri helicopter, that was largely used during the Second World War.

 

I suggest this very nice helicopter model, because it is a aircraft that belongs to the WWII period and because it is also perfect for the Normandy Map. Flettner 282 can perfectly integrate the WWII's scenario, together with all the other DCS aircraft modules of the second World War II that DCS has already and that is in development.

 

I am sure that a helicopter simulator will fill the emptyness of the lack of a helicopter simulator for this period. It will be more realistic for all the DCS players that enjoy flying helicopters simulators to use a simulator of a helicopter of the 30's and 40's decades, than using a modern helicopter model.

 

The german Flettner 282 has also another advantage for DCS developers team, because it is a helicopter that will require less work and less time and have less complexity for 3D modeling and animation, if compared to Mi-8, UH-1 Huey, Gazelle, or any other.

 

Of course, all the people who want to buy the WWII Normandy Map or even some other aircraft simulator of the World War II, will certainly appreciate flying this german helicopter simulator together with the well-known fighters Bf-109, Fw 190, P-51D Mustang, as well as the new released Spitfire Mk.IX.

 

It will be great if we can have this German helicopter simulator to create missions and to compose the whole atmosphere of the Second World War, specially for Normandy Map!

 

Helicopters as Flettner-282 (Kolibri), Flettner-265, Focke Achgelis Fa-223 (Drache) and Sikorsky R-4 can be a good deal for DCS and for all the simulators players!

 

Bellow, I have added a few photos of the helicopter Flettner-282 and other

models used during the Second World War.

 

See some following High Resolution photo montages that I did on the Flettner 282 helicopter:

 

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=153728&d=1482139766

 

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=153729&d=1482139766

 

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=153730&d=1482139766

 

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=153731&d=1482139906

 

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=153732&d=1482139906

 

Flettner Fl 282 ( 3D model parts with details ):

 

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2015/11/...structions.pdf

 

http://www.militarymodelling.com/for...?th=114855&p=1

http://www.militarymodelling.com/for...?th=114855&p=2

http://www.militarymodelling.com/for...?th=114855&p=3

http://www.militarymodelling.com/for...?th=114855&p=4

http://www.militarymodelling.com/for...?th=114855&p=5

http://www.militarymodelling.com/for...?th=114855&p=6

http://www.militarymodelling.com/for...?th=114855&p=7

http://www.militarymodelling.com/for...?th=114855&p=8

http://www.militarymodelling.com/for...?th=114855&p=9

 

Magazine:

 

http://www.pra.org/publicdl/Historical Documents/luftwaffe_profile_flettner_fl282.pdf

Мuseum:

 

http://www.bredow-web.de/Hubschraube...2_kolibri.html

 

http://www.bredow-web.de/Hubschraube...23_drache.html

 

Site:

 

http://www.airpages.ru/lw/fl282model.shtml

 

Videos about German Helicopters WWII:

 

Flettner Fl 282 Kolibri videos:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGfpa6Y8pPA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IYDzxT96lM

 

Flettner Fl 282 V23 video:

 

 

Flettner Fl 265 video:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFp0iDJd134

 

Flettner Fl 265, Fl 282 и Focke Archgelis Fa-223 videos:

 

 

Well, If the friends of this english language forum like my suggestion, make your comments!!! :)


Edited by chbn

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it's of dubious historical and tactical relevance to dcs. none of its roles as intership logistics, submarine and artillery spotting are core gameplay mechanics in dcs currently, and even if present, would have little to no impact on the dcs environment at large.

 

the fleshing out of tactical niches would further entail more work beyond the seemingly "simple" design of the craft itself, largely negating any advantage you hoped to capitalize on there. artillery spotting would require a whole set of mechanics to interact with artillery in a meaningful way, intership logistics would necessitate the creation of multiple new surface assets and their attendant mechanics, and submarine spotting would require submarine assets, asw assets, and then on top of that, a water simulation that supports them all.

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МИР

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"it's of dubious historical and tactical relevance to dcs."

At first, I didn´t made this suggestion, thinking as a Marketing guy, who makes "Surveys" to decide what is or not of relevance. I made it, because I like this helicopter model and because it perfectly fits the historical and tactical scenario for Normandy's environment. And, because I hope DCS's developers team may take into condideration the need of having a helicopter simulator, specially created for the WWII scenario, That's why I suggested this german made helicopter for Normandy Map.

 

Well, if creating a helicopter simulator that reproduces a real german made helicopter, and that had its importance for the germans during the WWII has no relevance, what will have then?

 

Many allies' ground troops, their artillery, tanks, or even the warships and their submarines were spotted many times by theses german helicopters. Which helped the war become more harder for the allies!

 

A war scenario involves many different weapons and employments of each one of them, and the helicopter was and still is one of these important weapons.

 

What is historically more relevant in the History of WWII? The employment of bomber airplanes or fighter airplanes? The use of warships or the use of tanks? The use of the Allies' Armies or the use of resistence groups?

 

Let me remember that the WWII was finished with the Soviet tanks and the Soviet Army's ground troops invading the Germany. But, for that, many weapons had to be employed, so it doesn´t make sense to say that a helicopter simulator based on a real german war helicopter of 30's and 40's has no historical or tactical relevance to DCS!

 

"none of its roles as intership logistics, submarine and artillery spotting are core gameplay mechanics in dcs currently, and even if present, would have little to no impact on the dcs environment at large."

The DCS core game priority until may be the aircrafts, but as far as I know, DCS released the Combined Arms module, that allow the player to interact with other weapons by controlling them.

 

The DCS developers team have already created a lot of warships, as destroyers, cruisers, frigates, aircraft carriers, submarines, boats for special forces, tanks, artillery objects, soldiers, special ground and marine forces groups which can be used to compose all the war environment! But, according to you, all these things have little or no impact on DCS environment? Isn´t it? So, tell me what are these things for?

 

All of these weapons and artillery objects allow me to create a more interesting and more complex missions, all according to the missions' employment I want to create. And all these weapons and objects interacts perfectly with my helis or any other aircraft I wish to fly. So, it doesn´t matter if it creates or not impact, or if it is or not a core game priority, what really matters, are the possibilities that all the players may have for their mission simulations!

 

"work beyond the seemingly "simple" design of the craft itself, largely negating any advantage you hoped to capitalize on there."

Unfortunately, you didn´t understand my intention to suggest the Flettner 282. I am not trying to capitalize anything! Even because, the DCS developers won´t give me a simulator as a Christmas' gift, just because I suggested a new helicopter simulator! It is really a easy helicopter model for modelling if compared to any other. And about the scripts to be created for reproducing its mechanics, still continues on making this helicopter a good choice to release it. Since it has not a great complexity for simulation its effects and for interacting it with other weapons or anything else.

 

Well, I mentioned this german helicopter model just because of its easyness in modelling it, and because it certainly will take less work and time to develop it. You seem to underestimate the DCS developers team capacity!

"artillery spotting would require a whole set of mechanics to interact with artillery in a meaningful way, intership logistics would necessitate the creation of multiple new surface assets and their attendant mechanics, and submarine spotting would require submarine assets, asw assets, and then on top of that, a water simulation that supports them all."
Yes, I know about that, but these are things that already exist. If necessary, the DCS team would need just to do some modifications to the scripts. You should play a DCS complex mission or watch a youtube video that shows any of these things you think that is difficult to be created! You will see that DCS has done much more than you can imagine.

 

This supposed difficultness for the whole set of mechanics you refer to, should be a preoccupation for The DCS's developers, not for simple users!

 

But, even so I think many of these scripts that will serve for all this interaction, already exist, and can be found on DCS, and an example of this is the "Combined Arms", module, where the objects, many weapons and soldiers interact with the player. So, if any of these things will have to be modified or adjusted to Flettner 282, the developers won´t take a long time or even a great effort for that.

 

The DCS developers are excellent professional modellers, graphic artists and programmers, and they do their job very well!

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I would prefer the Fa-223 Drache over the 282. It could be used for ©SAR and limited logistics.

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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@chbn

 

Probad is entirely right. It has no relevence for Normandy.

If we were having a map over central Germany on the other hand...it still wouldn't be of much use. DCS currently has nothing which supports recon operations.

 

Also, this talk of it being "easy" and "not complex" I think is vastly underrating the complexity of building a proper module for DCS, and actually doing a disservice to the various developers who work on it.

3D and animation work are the easy bits. It's the flight model and systems modelling which are hard. This'd be the first helo using an intermeshing rotor system, so that's uncharted territory, plus I'd imagine getting data for an airframe where only about 20 were made in -44/45 Germany is going to be difficult if it even exists.

 

As an aside, out of all the aircraft you listed, about the only properly sensible suggestion was the Sikorsky R-4, considering over 100 were made, it saw proper active duty and I suspect a fair bit of data for it will still be available considering the company still exists as do a number of airframes.

Still not much relevence for Normandy I'm afraid though :)

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Hate to agree on shooting down any aircraft idea but I support not considering this aircraft unless a new third party wants to start up and do civilian aircraft and this one. Helicopters had no major role in WW2 and are pointless for the Normandy Map campaign. If it is spotters and recon you, go with a Catalina or Ventura.

 

Robert

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