A2A missiles smoke trail -why and how long?

[Falcon_S]

REALLITY

 

Yes there is smoke...

 

DCS WORLD SIMULATOR

From ''Last update'':

The smoke trail density for some missiles increased.

 

But...

 

 

If you want to see blue AIM120C/B from the your red cockpit - no chance. But if you are lucky to see it will be the last thing you saw on that flight.

 

I understand the weather, background, technology, but this in the dcs is science fiction. Dear ED, why AIM`s are hidden? Ok, I understand merge with the background but why?

 

 

I bet that the first jumps is GG_Tharos :D

Edited December 28, 2016 by Falcon_S

[razo+r]

some of those missiles in the video were launched from contrailing altitude which also affects the smoke from the missile

 

also the AMRAAMs are designed to be smokefree or as smokefree as possible

 

bet lost :P

[Falcon_S]

some of those missiles in the video were launched from contrailing altitude which also affects the smoke from the missile

 

Where is that "contrailing altitude" in DCS? (for AMRAAM)

 

...also the AMRAAMs are designed to be smokefree or as smokefree as possible

 

bet lost :P

 

Yes, i see on

Raptor also launched smokefree type.

[razo+r]

Contrailing altitude depends on setting, but it's either the same as airplanes or higher

[Falcon_S]

Contrailing altitude depends on setting, but it's either the same as airplanes or higher

Let's talk a little bit more serious. ;) (i`m in this sim almost 8 years)

[red_coreSix]

They aren't "hidden". The AIM-120/7M/9 have smoke-less motors. The R-27 does not.

And if you look closely you'll see that they do in fact produce smoke, it's just not very visible :)

 

What we are missing is contrails for missiles, that's true. I've made a thread about it in the past and it got no attention from ED, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Falcon_S]

All that story about smoke-less motors are overblown here.

 

One thing is to have a smoke and the other thing is not having it at all. If it does not, then in the story here jumps magic smoke-less motors which are more implemented on missiles in video than in DCS ...but that motors much better work in DCS.

 

What are we talking about here? Raptor is hardly visible from the smoke produced by your smoke-less motor, at the launch from the ground Hummer also...

 

The fact is that in the DCS AMRAAM don`t have smoke trail. Do you see it on my screenshots?

 

Ok, smoke-less motor, altitude, weather conditions may affect trail visibility but in DCS NO SMOKE TRAIL for AIM120`s at all.

 

I just wanted to draw attention to this and to say that we are not crazy. I do not expect ED intervention soon but this takes too long and insults the intelligence of others.

 

One more time smoke-less motors not mean no-smoke motors.

[razo+r]

Contrailing missiles are not implemented in DCS

 

From this angle of view, you can't see any smoke, no, but now, Look at it from other angles and from the view of the eagle

[razo+r]

They have smoke, it's just not visible with every background

 

and even on your second screenshot i can see the smoke, you just need to look more carefully

[Falcon_S]

Contrailing missiles are not implemented in DCS

 

From this angle of view, you can't see any smoke, no, but now, Look at it from other angles and from the view of the eagle

 

No smoke from above, no smoke from under. (or as you said bellow ''i can see the smoke, you just need to look more carefully'' - Do you really think it's right?)

 

 

They have smoke, it's just not visible with every background

 

and even on your second screenshot i can see the smoke, you just need to look more carefully

 

And that`s it? Problem solved? :doh:

 

It is strange that in some situations you have limited views.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Falcon_S

[Falcon_S]

 

And this should complete this story?

[razo+r]

 

And this should complete this story?

 

What do you mean by complete the story?

 

If you say so, then yes

[GGTharos]

They are reduced snow motors. The entire point of the concept is to make the launch difficult or impossible to see. Your big Smokey rocket motors point the finger at you, reduced smoke motors hide the launcher.

[Falcon_S]

They are reduced snow motors. The entire point of the concept is to make the launch difficult or impossible to see. Your big Smokey rocket motors point the finger at you, reduced smoke motors hide the launcher.

 

We doctorate that after all these years here.

 

Can you explain why missiles on video have a smoke trail but in DCS no (ok, they have it as on razo-r`s screenshots )?

 

What is difference between motors in video and in DCS?

[razo+r]

DCS has a different particel system compared to real life :P

 

Just compare contrails from real planes and from DCS, this is where it starts

 

Missile trails, at least those from the R-27 are very similar to contrails in DCS, in real life, they have their own smoke, and in addition the contrail altitude, which you sometimes see in the video

 

 

this here has no smoke, so maybe it's the AIM-120D or even more advanced AMRAAM

Edited December 29, 2016 by razo+r

[Falcon_S]

DCS has a different particel system compared to real life :P

 

It is likely that in real life is buggy and how should look teaches us DCS.

 

Just compare contrails from real planes and from DCS, this is where it starts

 

...and in addition the contrail altitude, which you sometimes see in the video...

 

Dude looks like you're confused (no, you are not... you know what you talking and why ;) ) about contrails and missile trail and by your humorous logic

is at Mount Everest and

.

[Gruja]

[Frostie]

Lot of missiles smoking here, AIM-7 and AIM-120 but then again some AIM-120 with very little smoke. One thing is sure, R-27 smokes a lot.

 

[Falcon_S]

...One thing is sure, R-27 smokes a lot.

 

It is not disputed. But I think you'll agree with me that 120`s in DCS are too ''invisible''.

[red_coreSix]

 

There do seem to be some differences between AMRAAM versions, the C-5 especially which got a new motor.

[Enduro14]

which one is in DCS?......

[Frostie]

It is not disputed. But I think you'll agree with me that 120`s in DCS are too ''invisible''.

AIM-120 has a low smoke motor and propellant, it stands to reason that it should be harder to spot. I don't know if you're talking about the latest patch being different but I know previously there was a very faint line which is probably being lost with resolution/range etc.

 

Videos point to some 120's having very visible smoke, but is this there for live fire practice purposes? If not, having a dynamic contrail like aircraft would be great. I don't know exactly but aluminium is used in propellants for ISP this isn't used in a low smoke propellant, how this affects the 120 i'm not sure and whether it is an alternative propellant.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Frostie

[red_coreSix]

which one is in DCS?......

 

C-5 afaik, I don't think it is specified anywhere.

[SkateZilla]

Just a bit of insight,

 

Camera's Can have HDR and / Or Exposure Level Dropped, Especially in case involving Filming at Altitude where Sunlight is Overly Powerful.

 

Dropping Exposure and Adding IR Filter to a lens can make Smoke appear darker than what it really is.

 

As can Angles it's shot at:

ie

Below, the white smoke would be shadowed and appear darker on low color, low exposure video

Above the white smoke will be light up by the sunlight making it appear vastly brighter, overtop of a dark terrain below it,

 

 

Etc Etc.

 

Using YT/VHS/DVD/RAW Videos isnt the best way to set, tune or compare real life to VisualFX, the best way to do so is to base it off real world visual experience.

 

 

That being said, aspects are constantly being tuned.

[jackmckay]

1: altitude contrail - if planes engine doesn't contrail then missile engine shouldn't too. Look at that on specific video.

 

2: missile smoke - solid propellant rocket engine is specific chemical reaction process and product of burning is trail of reacted solid particles left behind rocked engine flight path regardless of being smoke or smoke-less type. These particles in humid air act as could seeders so trail visibility greatly depends on air humidity(besides temperature) which is ( I presume) not simulated in DCS.

 

3: missile performance - every missile even at terminal glide phase performs series of aerodynamic maneuvers and each high speed/high G turn should produce missile's wingtip vertices and mist similar as high speed turn does on plane wings.

 

:: Conclusion: Missiles should have trails especially if they perform hard maneuvers; atmosphere property greatly influences trail visibility as one can't be invisible in any circumstance.

Edited December 29, 2016 by jackmckay