Sometimes my A-10C is too slow!

[GazAce]

Wow what a nice vibe there is here, that is awesomely helpful, thank you all. Finally just completed first mission of a campaign and landed without dying!! YES!! Dam gotta be up for work in 5 hrs boo hoo.

[Yurgon]

I shouldn't have mentioned it :~/

 

Dunno about you, but I tend to enjoy this type of discussion. Means we're passionate. :smartass:

 

First post of the thread, pal.

 

That just doesn't make any sense. You're saying OP crashes because his aircraft is too heavy and too draggy. Maybe that's a contributing factor. But A-10s don't just crash into mountains because someone loads some heavy weapons. You've got the causality wrong.

 

Any excess weight is your enemy. Take as little as possible ordnance to get the mission done, and as little fuel as you can get away with and still have a sufficient reserve.

 

All good points!

 

Just to reiterate, many of the stock missions that come with the module can't be completed this way. They do require many weapons, and AAR isn't usually available.

 

These aren't overly realistic missions, but I think they do a good job of introducing new players to the sim once they've completed the first couple of training missions.

 

As long as players don't think all missions will always look like this, I think there's no harm. Plus, some of the scenarios are actually quite a nice challenge, like the River Raiders and Smerch Hunt missions.

 

TER - Triple Ejector Rack is a system on one pylon for carrying 3 x weapons so in the A-10c you could carry TERs with mavericks or 500lb bombs on pylons 3,5,7 and 9

 

Sorry to be so nitpicky, but the rack for Mavericks is called the LAU-88 (for a maximum of 3 missiles) or thr LAU-117 for a single missile. The LAU-88 is really draggy, as you can imagine by looking at these pictures.

 

On the A-10C, only stations 3 and 9 are wired for Mavericks, meaning that in order to carry more than 2 Mavs, LAU-88s must be used, causing the aforementioned increased drag.

 

The Triple Ejector Rack aka TER works pretty much the same way for bombs. I think it causes less drag than the LAU-88, but it still only makes sense when the mission dictates using that many weapons.

 

IMO its all about the cost, it would be pretty dumb to use 500k$ worth of munitions on 3 insurgents with ak s and a toyota truck with .50 cal hmg mounted on it in real life.

 

AFAIK cost isn't the most important factor. The most important consideration is which weapon will provide the best effect for the task at hand, out of the weapons available.

 

I read stories about pilots getting into a bit of trouble for wasting several smart bombs on a single damaged mortar or cannon, but ultimately they wanted to make absolutely sure that this weapon would never be used against the boots on the ground again.

 

Let's take the .50 cal example. If the target is isolated, Mavericks and smart bombs would seem like overkill. If it's engaged in a TIC and an A-10 is bustering to get on station and provide CAS ASAP, a Maverick might take the heat off the friendlies a lot sooner than a gun run or a smart bomb, and every second counts. I believe a pilot wouldn't hesitate to use a Mav in that case, regardless of the weapon's price.

 

For anyone who hasn't listened to it yet, there was an amazing TeamSpeak session with "Olie", a retired A-10 pilot, who talked for over 2 hours. The link to the recording can be found here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2637329&postcount=70, and a little later Olie also went on the 476th podcast. IIRC he talks about the cost of weapons and says that pilots didn't need to think about it.

 

(Thanks again dabomb and Dojo, and Olie of course, for providing these awesome insights!)

 

And how do you jettison those used racks, couldn't find it in the near 700 page manual I've got here

 

DSMS, Selective Jettison (SJET), then toggle the appropriate OSB to "RACK"; I think it's OSB 5 on the top right, but I'm not at my PC right now. After that, select stations 3 and 9 and (with Master Arm on) push the weapon release button on the stick. :thumbup:

[GazAce]

HOTAS Throttle ok?

 

About the OP s performance issue, i think its happening cos of the afterburner limiter on hotas warthogs throttle as EasyEB mentioned on his first post.

 

Hey all, this quote above I read has me a little perplexed. Doesn't the afterburner limiter only apply to supersonic aircraft SU27 etc , so how is it relevant to my Warthog? And also you have to physically change the mechanics of the throttle with your Allen key for this to happen which I haven't done as I thought it wasn't necessary? I'm doing this right yea? I've only had the throttle and stick setup for two weeks so it's still kinda exciting and new but I'm sure I don't use the afterburner, right? Anyway I don't want to get too bogged down with this, I just want to know if there's anything to be concerned about with this equipment, so far it seems to be working beautifully. :pilotfly:

[Yurgon]

And also you have to physically change the mechanics of the throttle with your Allen key for this to happen which I haven't done as I thought it wasn't necessary?

 

If you haven't physically put the afterburner detent to the "active" position (for lack of a better description) in your Warthog throttle, that is not the source of your problem.

 

And you're right, for the A-10C this isn't necessary and you should leave everything as is. :thumbup:

 

Coming back to my first post here, when you encounter the problem again, can you post a track? After quitting the mission, just hit "Save Track" in the debriefing screen, and then upload that file here. It's probably going to be too big to attach it in the forum, but you could use Dropbox or a similar service to upload the track file and just post the link here. Then we can virtually "look over your shoulder" and give you some pointers.

[GazAce]

Yea man your right, these discussions are awesome, especially for me being a newby to the A-10C and thank you kindly again for your input. And I will try to upload it cause it's a great little mission and in relation to that speed issue it always starts the same way (around 190 kts) unless I reduce the fuel and munitions. I'll try it again when I get home and start it as the default load out and see what happens. If anyone is interested, it's called CSAR I think.

[kylekatarn720]

For anyone who hasn't listened to it yet, there was an amazing TeamSpeak session with "Olie", a retired A-10 pilot, who talked for over 2 hours. The link to the recording can be found here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2637329&postcount=70, and a little later Olie also went on the 476th podcast. IIRC he talks about the cost of weapons and says that pilots didn't need to think about it.

 

(Thanks again dabomb and Dojo, and Olie of course, for providing these awesome insights!)

 

Thx for the link yurgon i didnt even know that they did a Q&A on teamspeak, gonna listen to it tonight^^.

 

AFAIK cost isn't the most important factor. The most important consideration is which weapon will provide the best effect for the task at hand, out of the weapons available.

 

I read stories about pilots getting into a bit of trouble for wasting several smart bombs on a single damaged mortar or cannon, but ultimately they wanted to make absolutely sure that this weapon would never be used against the boots on the ground again.

 

Let's take the .50 cal example. If the target is isolated, Mavericks and smart bombs would seem like overkill. If it's engaged in a TIC and an A-10 is bustering to get on station and provide CAS ASAP, a Maverick might take the heat off the friendlies a lot sooner than a gun run or a smart bomb, and every second counts. I believe a pilot wouldn't hesitate to use a Mav in that case, regardless of the weapon's price.

 

 

You are right if this is the case , after all if you dont use these weapons in a situation like this there are things you are going to lose which are more valuable to you than a maverick.

 

Correct me if i am wrong on this, i remember something like that its not the pilots but the operation command( i dont know the proper abbreviation for it) decides which weapons to load on the aircraft. If this is the case, then the pilot has the right to decide which weapon to use from the loadout that is allowed for him/her to use but doesnt have the right to dedice about what to carry. In the end he cant say lemme take a smart bomb with me, i m gonna drop this on an insurgent having his time with a goat.

[Yurgon]

Correct me if i am wrong on this, i remember something like that its not the pilots but the operation command( i dont know the proper abbreviation for it) decides which weapons to load on the aircraft.

 

That's exactly how I understood it in the TeamSpeak recording. :thumbup:

[RyboPops]

Correct me if i am wrong on this, i remember something like that its not the pilots but the operation command( i dont know the proper abbreviation for it) decides which weapons to load on the aircraft

 

Correct. The squadron weapons officer will plan the loadouts and chaff/flare programs for a given sortie. For training there is usually a squadron standard load that everyone will fly with for a given CT or RAP flight.

Edited March 12, 2017 by RyboPops

[GazAce]

Re: CSAR Mission

 

Well it happened again!! That same fricken CSAR mission!! I'm goin crazy with this thing man. Firstly, I'm one of these peeps who likes to complete stuff, you know.. no loose ends, all that. So when I come across a mission I cant complete I keep on pluggin away, sorry, that's just the way I am, especially when I've been soooo dam close. Anyway, back to my dilemma. The same sh^%$#@ happened. I fly with the default load out, set my alt/head on auto and what happens?! My Hog literally starts to eventually fall out of the sky. This time I saved this mission ( actually two them ) so I can pass it onto who ever is interested but I what I really would like is for someone to try it as I did and see what happens. I really think there is a problem here. Just try it, no fuel or weapons changes and sit at the altitude it starts and see what happens. I was max power at that altitude and I literally starting floating into a loss of power and speed and had to dive to regain. Maybe I should forget about it and focus on the Campaign, hmm or maybe add more Coke to my Black Russians.

Whatever, still happy, peace out.

G

[Yurgon]

[...] what I really would like is for someone to try it as I did and see what happens.

 

I did fly the mission after your initial report and found nothing wrong with the aircraft and its handling.

 

If you can upload your track(s), maybe we can take a closer look. :thumbup:

 

Just be aware that track playback has always been prone to errors; when replaying a track, it's actually like re-running the mission in real time, only this time the player-input comes from the recorded track. As soon as this recording is even the slightest bit off, the replay might turn out completely different from the original flight.

 

In any case, I think a track would be well suited to allow us a closer look and hopefully point you in the right direction. :thumbup:

[GazAce]

Cheers, thanks Yurgs :o)

[LeCuvier]

I have most of the DCS modules and I would say that none of the other modules come with a collection of missions and campaigns as large as that of the A-10C. But I have never considered the out-of-the-box missions as the last word. In fact I have modified most of them, and I changed the load-out in most of them. That's what we have the mission editor for. I tend to really load the bird to its limits, certainly above 100% and usually with 100% fuel, as many of the missions require lots of ground targets to be killed, and sometimes the targets are hard to find so you need loitering time. And of course I change the ordnance mix in most missions,depending on what targets I have to attack. I don't use any free-falling bombs for example, and I carry rockets only if I expect a lot of soft targets.

As a consequence, quite often I have to fly a wide loop in order to gain altitude before I reach hostile-held territory or mountains.

But when I have to operate inside a high mountain range I would certainly reduce the load.

[Gliptal]

I have most of the DCS modules and I would say that none of the other modules come with a collection of missions and campaigns as large as that of the A-10C. But I have never considered the out-of-the-box missions as the last word. In fact I have modified most of them, and I changed the load-out in most of them. That's what we have the mission editor for. I tend to really load the bird to its limits, certainly above 100% and usually with 100% fuel, as many of the missions require lots of ground targets to be killed, and sometimes the targets are hard to find so you need loitering time. And of course I change the ordnance mix in most missions,depending on what targets I have to attack. I don't use any free-falling bombs for example, and I carry rockets only if I expect a lot of soft targets.

As a consequence, quite often I have to fly a wide loop in order to gain altitude before I reach hostile-held territory or mountains.

But when I have to operate inside a high mountain range I would certainly reduce the load.

Which is not how you would fly the real A-10 at all. :D

[LeCuvier]

Which is not how you would fly the real A-10 at all. :D

???

I will never fly the real A-10 and I'm not sure you will. But I want to have some real fun!

[Gliptal]

???

I will never fly the real A-10 and I'm not sure you will. But I want to have some real fun!

Sure, to each its own. Just poking at you.

 

Besides, flying realistic loadouts makes the A-10 a much lighter and maneverable plane, which is a fun thing by istelf.