A weekend with the Viggen

[dores893]

I've spent the last three days learning the Viggen. It's a fine plane, but I do have some comments/questions.

 

1. Bk90 Cluster Munitions. Very cool, but 9 out of 10 times they fly over the target LOLA and do not dispense any munitions. I've followed John's excellent tutorial. Is this a bug, or am I doing something wrong? They are dead on target, so I'm not sure what else to do.

 

2 App-27 RWR: This is possibly the loudest RWR ever. :) The volume is supposed to be controlled by the UK DAMPING knob on the front left panel which also controls the sidewinder volume. This knob does not appear to function. There is also a "lights only" mode keyboard binding that does not appear to work. So far, the only solution is to turn the entire system on or off.

 

3. Landing with the Autothrottle lever: I find that visual landings are deadly with this engaged if you make any mistakes in AoA, which always leads to a compressor stall. As soon as I hear that first thump I want to do what any pilot does for stall recovery: lower the nose and go to full throttle. However, the Autothrottle lever seems to override my manual inputs. By the time I look back and get the darn thing up, it's too late. It seems safer to do a visual approach without it and manually control the throttle and AoA to maintain speed and glideslope. These automations should make this bird easier to land than the Mig-21, but no matter how you slice or dice it a delta wing plan is touchy as low speeds.

[QuiGon]

1. Haven't tried yet, because they're broken in MP.

 

2. It is indeed very loud and the UK DAMPNING knob is bugged (not working) for me as well :(

 

3. I've seen several people saying this, but I haven't experienced anything like that and I've made quite a couple of autothrottle landings.

[firmek]

1. Bk90 is not fully finished yet and does not work correctly in MP. Devs have stated that Bk90 is a work in progress. In SP I didn't had much issues with it - provided that it's released within the parameters.

2. The volume knob for RWR is not working yet. I just got an idea to try out as a temporary workaround - reducing the volume of in-cockpit sounds in main DCS options menu. Otherwise use the lights only mode when in safe area.

3. I guess that you need to on a correct glideslope and maintain steady AoA to safely land using automatic throttle control.

[MBot]

I don't use the AFK for landing, as I often get glide path and thrust oscillation. Also a couple of times the AFK has driven itself into an AOA regime it could not recover from with available trust, requiring immediate pilot intervention. Flying manually seems to be both safer and more precise so far.

[Bad Idea Hat]

I've spent the last three days learning the Viggen. It's a fine plane, but I do have some comments/questions.

 

1. Bk90 Cluster Munitions. Very cool, but 9 out of 10 times they fly over the target LOLA and do not dispense any munitions. I've followed John's excellent tutorial. Is this a bug, or am I doing something wrong? They are dead on target, so I'm not sure what else to do.

 

I can get it to drop on target, but it requires pre-planning. I'd go with good pre-planning, but adequate also works. Trying to do it from radar, currently, is usually a great way to wreck a Viggen in hilarious ways.

 

2 App-27 RWR: This is possibly the loudest RWR ever. :) The volume is supposed to be controlled by the UK DAMPING knob on the front left panel which also controls the sidewinder volume. This knob does not appear to function. There is also a "lights only" mode keyboard binding that does not appear to work. So far, the only solution is to turn the entire system on or off.

 

I've never tried turning the volume down. There is a switch that allows you to change the RWR to either "lights" or "lights and sound." The actual switches read "LJUS" and "LJUS/LJUD." I believe ljud is Swedish for "annoying."

 

Anyway, switch to Ljus for not annoying. I have to warn you, though, it's annoying you because a SAM/Aircraft might be annoying you very soon.

 

3. Landing with the Autothrottle lever: I find that visual landings are deadly with this engaged if you make any mistakes in AoA, which always leads to a compressor stall. As soon as I hear that first thump I want to do what any pilot does for stall recovery: lower the nose and go to full throttle. However, the Autothrottle lever seems to override my manual inputs. By the time I look back and get the darn thing up, it's too late. It seems safer to do a visual approach without it and manually control the throttle and AoA to maintain speed and glideslope. These automations should make this bird easier to land than the Mig-21, but no matter how you slice or dice it a delta wing plan is touchy as low speeds.

 

Bind a key to to switch to IR missile/release AFK (I think it does both). Lets you quickly turn AFK off when your aircraft farts out of control on final (Sweden, you need a better word for speed).

[Ragequits]

Unfortunaly I did not have that much time with the viggen until now but I never had the problem with compressor stalls with auto throttle

I actually think it is a dream to land with it....just put the glideslope and the velocity vector on the threshold and the rest is done pretty much on its own :D

[QuiGon]

I've never tried turning the volume down. There is a switch that allows you to change the RWR to either "lights" or "lights and sound." The actual switches read "LJUS" and "LJUS/LJUD." I believe ljud is Swedish for "annoying."

:lol:

 

Unfortunaly I did not have that much time with the viggen until now but I never had the problem with compressor stalls with auto throttle

I actually think it is a dream to land with it....just put the glideslope and the velocity vector on the threshold and the rest is done pretty much on its own

This!

Edited March 13, 2017 by QuiGon

[MBot]

What I get is this: Velocity vector is below threshold. I pull it up. AOA increases, AFK adds power. Due to added power, VV rises. I pull it down back on threshold. AOA decreases, AFK reduces power. Due to power loss, VV falls. I pull it back up on threshold. Etc. And this oscillation repeats forever, getting worse each time.

[Bad Idea Hat]

Not to offend your flying abilities, but after a few landings with bad oscillations, I just started making sure I was stabilized on approach further out. If I was flying a good profile, the airplane was stable even in AFK.

 

I've since dropped using AFK because I like having full control when some goofball in a Russian jet goes flying past me at their high approach speeds. AFK can be used to do some damn near hands-off approaches. You just need to make sure you're stabilized early.

[MBot]

Don't get me wrong, I fly a perfectly stable pinpoint approach with manual throttle control. Shouldn't AFK make things easier :)

Edited March 13, 2017 by MBot

[dores893]

1. Glad I'm not crazy on the Bk90. I can get it on target. The munitions blow up everything in SP but then do not dispense at all in MP. Speaking of bugs, my Mig-21 radar has crapped out since the last update (anyone elses?). In multiplayer, lack of a standoff weapon reduces the Viggen to a bomb truck, does it not? And, I've had small arms fire disintegrate my Viggen at Mach .9 when I'm bombing straight and level over the target at 100m. I'm telling you, this plane was meant to sink ships. Maverick deployment is difficult at best, so it would be great to have that stand off BK90 option in MP.

 

2. The RWR "lights only" button even when you keybind it still doesn't seem to work. Volume control, please! If it can be done on the Mig, it can be done on the Viggen.

 

3. I've had some good landings with autothrottle, and I've had some bad fails with it. The system seems to be a few seconds behind the aircraft. Where I get in trouble is if I increase AoA to level out on a long approach. The throttle doesn't seem to keep up with the decrease in speed and change in airflow over the wings. I'm not sure if the answer is to just come in high and fast, but then I can't get my speed down without flaps and air brakes (which do not seem to exist on the Viggen). It reminds me of landing the ConcordeX. You're screwed until you get your wheels on the ground and can hit the reversers and breaks. I know a few times I've put the back wheels of the Viggen on the runway and went to full throttle thinking I was going into thrust reverse only to accelerate off the runway at full afterburner. Maybe I need to nose down the stick. The only reason I can think to design it with two back wheels like a Mig-25 is to either do harder, faster landings or have more breaking power. Fun stuff!

[Bullitthead]

For the BK 90, make sure that your target waypoint is an attack (M) waypoint, you are not playing in multiplayer unless you are the host and your master mode is set to ANF. Also verify you are within launch parameters, if you are too far away the BK90 will overfly the target and not deploy munitions.

[spiddx]

2. The RWR "lights only" button even when you keybind it still doesn't seem to work.

 

It works, at least if you use the switch in the cockpit with the mouse. Not sure about the key binding.

[mattebubben]

The keybind for Lights only works for me.

so dont know why it would not work for him.

Check in controls to make sure its not in Red text.

And if it is that would explain it.

[QuiGon]

1. Glad I'm not crazy on the Bk90. I can get it on target. The munitions blow up everything in SP but then do not dispense at all in MP. Speaking of bugs, my Mig-21 radar has crapped out since the last update (anyone elses?). In multiplayer, lack of a standoff weapon reduces the Viggen to a bomb truck, does it not? And, I've had small arms fire disintegrate my Viggen at Mach .9 when I'm bombing straight and level over the target at 100m. I'm telling you, this plane was meant to sink ships. Maverick deployment is difficult at best, so it would be great to have that stand off BK90 option in MP.

 

The Viggen was never supposed to be a stand-off attacker (stand off munitions didn't exist back then), so yeah, going in low with bombs is the way to go. I do that all the time, bombing enemy airfields on the BlueFlag server.

100m is way to high! Use high drag bombs and drop them from 10-20m to stay below enemy AA. You can also use toss bombing to get at least some stand off range.

[mattebubben]

In what way is Maverick deployment difficult?.

 

Do you have Track IR?.

 

I find it to be easy enough just lower the Seat lightly so you can see the Boresight Dot for the Mavericks.

 

Put the Dot on the target and simply look at the EP-13 Display and lock the target you want.

And remember to Re-Boresight between shots.

 

Dont find it much more difficult then using the Maverick on the A-10A.

[Bad Idea Hat]

In what way is Maverick deployment difficult?.

 

Do you have Track IR?.

 

I find it to be easy enough just lower the Seat lightly so you can see the Boresight Dot for the Mavericks.

 

Put the Dot on the target and simply look at the EP-13 Display and lock the target you want.

And remember to Re-Boresight between shots.

 

Dont find it much more difficult then using the Maverick on the A-10A.

 

The tiiiiiny sight being a pain is made up for by the Swedes placing it right next to the HUD. Hell, that's one of the many design choices I love that they made (except for the upside down altimeter, why the hell).

[Finnsky]

I love the AFK! I land with it every time and I did not have a Problem at all, neither in TILS or visual mode. I even think the Viggen is one of the most easy planes to land because of the afk and thrustreverser :)

[renhanxue]

(except for the upside down altimeter, why the hell).

the what now?

[Ragequits]

I only had a problem with the bk-90 wth the series mode. The one on the left outer station launched first and the one on the right inner station next but the other two did not launch until I pressed the trigger again.

But I'm not calling it a bug since I only did three launches and just skimmed other the manual. Probably only a mstake in my side.

And of course the damage but that is an ED-level problem.

[Bad Idea Hat]

the what now?

 

I'm used to my altimeter having the 0 at the top, not the bottom.

I know it makes sense, seeing as how you'll hit the bottom of both the altimeter and whatever you're flying over at the same time. I'm just used to it being a non-moon person design.

[QuiGon]

I'm used to my altimeter having the 0 at the top, not the bottom.

I know it makes sense, seeing as how you'll hit the bottom of both the altimeter and whatever you're flying over at the same time. I'm just used to it being a non-moon person design.

 

You're not the only one! It freaks me out every time, even though it's actually more logical, but I'm just not used to it :joystick:

[dores893]

In what way is Maverick deployment difficult?.

 

Do you have Track IR?.

 

I find it to be easy enough just lower the Seat lightly so you can see the Boresight Dot for the Mavericks.

 

Put the Dot on the target and simply look at the EP-13 Display and lock the target you want.

And remember to Re-Boresight between shots.

 

Dont find it much more difficult then using the Maverick on the A-10A.

 

 

 

I have never used the A-10A. I designate with the targeting pod zoomed in, set my SPI, then slave all to SPI. Yes I have Track IR.

[foxtheancient]

In what way is Maverick deployment difficult?.

 

Do you have Track IR?.

 

I find it to be easy enough just lower the Seat lightly so you can see the Boresight Dot for the Mavericks.

 

Put the Dot on the target and simply look at the EP-13 Display and lock the target you want.

And remember to Re-Boresight between shots.

 

Dont find it much more difficult then using the Maverick on the A-10A.

 

Err ... wait a second, there is any way to see where the "eye" of the missile is looking? On the HUD, like on A10A? Because I never notice anything which make the search for target really difficult.

[foxtheancient]

I've spent the last three days learning the Viggen. It's a fine plane, but I do have some comments/questions.

 

1. Bk90 Cluster Munitions. Very cool, but 9 out of 10 times they fly over the target LOLA and do not dispense any munitions. I've followed John's excellent tutorial. Is this a bug, or am I doing something wrong? They are dead on target, so I'm not sure what else to do.

 

2 App-27 RWR: This is possibly the loudest RWR ever. :) The volume is supposed to be controlled by the UK DAMPING knob on the front left panel which also controls the sidewinder volume. This knob does not appear to function. There is also a "lights only" mode keyboard binding that does not appear to work. So far, the only solution is to turn the entire system on or off.

 

3. Landing with the Autothrottle lever: I find that visual landings are deadly with this engaged if you make any mistakes in AoA, which always leads to a compressor stall. As soon as I hear that first thump I want to do what any pilot does for stall recovery: lower the nose and go to full throttle. However, the Autothrottle lever seems to override my manual inputs. By the time I look back and get the darn thing up, it's too late. It seems safer to do a visual approach without it and manually control the throttle and AoA to maintain speed and glideslope. These automations should make this bird easier to land than the Mig-21, but no matter how you slice or dice it a delta wing plan is touchy as low speeds.

 

2. "Lights only" switch works. I've included switching to silent mode to my start-up procedure.

 

3. I personally found landing with AFK more tricky than without it. First I liked the idea "you don't need to care about throttle". Like I like the idea "you don't need to care about flaps". Then I found it work well only when you do the perfect approach. When you fly with same descending ange and AoA all the way and not doing much nose upping/downing for altitude corrections. In case you are doing any bigger nose corrections, throttle just respons too slowly, allowing the plane to get high AoA and lose much altitude very quickly. Simply put, automatic AFK system can be only reactive because it is not connected to your brain. Manual throttle is proactive, because it is connected to your brain. You know you will need more/less power before you do. Plane does not.