Bug - RB-04E is not working on this latest update

[edineygomes]

I added two ships in the mission editor.

 

I created an ajs-37 with a waypoint over the targets. (M1)

 

Launched the missiles with ANF master mode, the weapon selector in attack mode, release modein serie and target mode grupp. The missiles do not detect targets and pass through.

 

Altitude 100 meters QFE 1013

 

Am I doing something wrong?

[Harke]

same bug for me

[Cobra847]

How close together are the two ships? The Grupp mode requires a specific arrangement for the ships to work (A line)

[Harke]

3 ship in line espaced by 0.40nm each, managed to kill one in enkel but grupp only ignore them

[Harke]

Edited September 12, 2017 by Harke

[RagnarDa]

The targets need to be in a line in depth from the point of view of the missile.

 

A little picture to llustrate (M is missile and <000> is targets). The missile is coming from the left.

 

Correct:

--M->                           <000>    <000>  <000>

Not correct (will miss):

 

                                 <000>

--M->                             <000>

                                 <000>

[Harke]

OOooooooo..... :doh:

 

but ? why it isn't working in the first screenshot ?

 

 

 

                    0           0
--M-->              0           0
                   0           0
bad ?

[JanTelefon]

I think the ships might be to close together. I'm not sure what the depth separation needs to be, but it might be more than that. This is tech from the 60:s after all. :)

[Jediteo]

The issue is that the seeker does not recognise groups in width, only in depth. This is a limitation of the seeker design and the rather small scan area. In the case the missile detects ships that are not recognised as being a group, it will not lock them and proceed to try to find other targets behind them.

 

The group mode should only really be used for large convoys.

 

Consider the possibility of the first ships detected being escorts and the juicy transports are just outside of the search zone. If the missile would see the escorts as a group, there would be no way to hit the transports. It was assumed at the time the ships would be in large square formations (consider that the missile started development within 10 years of the end of WW2 and entered service in 1962).

 

 

 

The prerequisites for being a group:

At least 2 targets detected in depth.

The ships are not more than 2700m away from each other.

 

As illustated in case 1. The ships are in a single column and are attacked from the beam. In this case, the missile detects the ships, but does not recognise them as a group.

If the targets instead would be attacked from the bow (front), the missile would see the ships as a group. Either change the approach vector, or use the single target (ENKEL) mode instead which would lock the first ship detected.

 

 

 

In case two, the ships are arranged in a row, with less then 2700 meters between them. Ships A, B, C are in a line. The 04 sees them as a group, but does not consider X and Y among them.

 

 

Depending on the missile presets, either the target row 1 (ship A), 2 (ship B), or 3 ( ship C) would be locked, by default the selection is random(changeable in the Mission Editor).

 

In summary, attacking groups of ships requires some planning, in particular "lining" the ships up for the missile. So either use the single mode (ENKEL) or try to attack the convoy so that the missile can see 2 or 3 ships in depth.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Jediteo

[Harke]

Awesome answer... wow thank you! this thing must be in the manual with this level of detail !

 

The issue is that the seeker does not recognise groups in width, only in depth. This is a limitation of the seeker design and the rather small scan area. In the case the missile detects ships that are not recognised as being a group, it will not lock them and proceed to try to find other targets behind them.

 

The group mode should only really be used for large convoys.

 

Consider the possibility of the first ships detected being escorts and the juicy transports are just outside of the search zone. If the missile would see the escorts as a group, there would be no way to hit the transports. It was assumed at the time the ships would be in large square formations (consider that the missile started development within 10 years of the end of WW2 and entered service in 1962).

 

 

 

The prerequisites for being a group:

At least 2 targets detected in depth.

The ships are not more than 2700m away from each other.

 

As illustated in case 1. The ships are in a single column and are attacked from the beam. In this case, the missile detects the ships, but does not recognise them as a group.

If the targets instead would be attacked from the bow (front), the missile would see the ships as a group. Either change the approach vector, or use the single target (ENKEL) mode instead which would lock the first ship detected.

 

 

 

In case two, the ships are arranged in a row, with less then 2700 meters between them. Ships A, B, C are in a line. The 04 sees them as a group, but does not consider X and Y among them.

 

 

Depending on the missile presets, either the target row 1 (ship A), 2 (ship B), or 3 ( ship C) would be locked, by default the selection is random(changeable in the Mission Editor).

 

In summary, attacking groups of ships requires some planning, in particular "lining" the ships up for the missile. So either use the single mode (ENKEL) or try to attack the convoy so that the missile can see 2 or 3 ships in depth.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Harke

[Quip]

It is in the manual in fact:

Grouped targets is selected by setting the targeting mode selector to GRUPP. In this mode, the

contacts must be within 2700 metres of each other in depth. Otherwise the missile may miss

the targets entirely. If the missile detects a grouped target, it will select one of the contacts at

random, leading to multiple missiles selecting different targets.

[RagnarDa]

I am pretty sure those nice pictures and detailed text will be included in the updated manual ;) (JediTeo is the author of the DCS:Viggen manual)

[Harke]

It is in the manual in fact:

 

My level of English is not very good, I did not understand it that way :music_whistling:

 

I am pretty sure those nice pictures and detailed text will be included in the updated manual ;) (JediTeo is the author of the DCS:Viggen manual)

 

:thumbup:

[goestrip]

I had the same bug this week in 1.5.x, but after some testing it seems to be related to the ship you use. With the russian dry cargo ship (ivanov i think), i could never get a missile tracking them in SP or MP.

But as soon as I changed the boat type (to a tanker elnya, or military boat) it all worked, whatever the boat formation or my approach angle.

 

So I reckon it's a weird bug linked to this particular ship type.

[Wiggo]

Hmm. If I correct the M1 point in rdr does it move my whole route ? Dont understand how that is separated from fixing "E1"?

[Machalot]

On 10/4/2024 at 10:59 AM, Wiggo said:

Hmm. If I correct the M1 point in rdr does it move my whole route ? Dont understand how that is separated from fixing "E1"?

A fix on an M point ("Target fix") changes the coordinates of that point only, without making any other changes to your navigation system. 

A fix on a B or Bx point ("Navigation fix") doesn't change anything about the waypoint, rather it overwrites your current navigation system coordinates to match the waypoint.  You're telling the navigation computer, "Wherever I thought I was, forget about it, I am actually at the waypoint."  This moves your navigation state onto the current waypoint so it is now 0 km away.  From your perspective this waypoint appears to shift onto you, and the entire set of waypoints shifts accordingly.  The effect is exactly the same as the automatic TERNAV fixes performed by the CK37 using radar altimeter data.  (If you do a radar fix instead of a flyover fix, everything here is still true but is applied with an additional offset equal on the radar cursor position.)

The E is not a type of point, it's an intermediate state that is displayed once you initiate the fix process (trigger to T1) until you finalize it (trigger TV).

Read the manual starting at p. 264.

 

Just as a point of forum etiquette, it's better to start a new thread of your own and link to this one if necessary, rather than resurrect a 7 year old thread. 

Hope this helps!

Edited October 5, 2024 by Machalot