New FM Update Roll Rate Test

[Gunny Highway]

Due to all the discussion on the new roll rate, I made a quick, extremely scientific roll rate test video. Doing my simple math, at 1000 km/h, the roll rate seems right under 400 degrees/second. Given the stated roll rate of around 420/second, it would appear the flight model is behaving very closely to the real deal. It is also now possible to induce blackout at higher speeds in a full roll, which has also been documented in MiG-21 articles and tests.

 

 

I also noticed the RWR is slanted about 30 degrees to the right now as well. Not sure if this has been discussed.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Gunny Highway

[Gunny Highway]

also if someone knows how to make embed youtube work, could you help a brotha out?

[Dehuman]

RWR was in the "night" position

[humptydumpty]

I like the roll now but i notice , if I roll left i feel the yaw effect too like its coupled.

[humptydumpty]

The landing is awesome now very stable on lateral / longitudal

[grunf]

also if someone knows how to make embed youtube work, could you help a brotha out?

Put the part of the link that is right of = between youtube tags. In your case that would be MLqKbbKIaD.

Like this, but without the spaces:

[ YOUTUBE]MLqKbbKIaDo[ /YOUTUBE]

 

 

Thanks for the test btw. :thumbup:

[Ce_Zeta]

Thank you for the test Gangsta.

[Gunny Highway]

Thanks for the embed tip. I've done some further testing due to some complaints on here, at different speeds etc, and I feel like the module more closely resembles real world performance. There's some really great documents on the 21 because of all the testing the US conducted on "borrowed" MiGs.

[OnlyforDCS]

Gunny, how bout roll rate at near stall and stall speeds? I heard that the plane is simply "too" responsive when rolling at very slow speeds.

[Gunny Highway]

 

Heres one with some low speed rolls/stalling. At 300km/h it rolls about 140/s. At full on stall it became extremely slow rolling, eventually becoming uncontrollable and doing some weird stuff. I'm not a aerodynamic engineer so excuse my inaccuracies in describing the behavior, but you can see for yourself. I wouldn't categorize it as being "too responsive", i didn't regain positive control until let it settle into a full nose dive and regain some speed. I hope you appreciate this Comrades, it cost me my life.

[GGTharos]

As AoA increases, response to aileron decreases. Airspeed doesn't matter that much :)

 

Your 'weird behavior' appears to be roll coupling. I don't know if it is realistic for this airframe or not.

[BadHabit]

Roll Coupling should be a factor at Higher Supersonic speeds the yawing and pitch momentum of coupling in the mig's new FM is easy to notice at any speed.

Rudder is very sharp and gives a very hard time for corrections, rolling is also very sharp at any speed and the inertia is nowhere. I am not a scientist but I can tell what looks natural or not. This effects are not linear to speed, I hope M3 will take in advice the former FM used in 1.2 put the correct numbers on it to match the Aerodynamics and performance tables they posses and everyone be happy.

[Gunny Highway]

 

I'd say it lines up pretty nicely with this video. The pilot has very crisp, sharp control over the aircraft.

[Flia]

I agree. Mig in Open Beta is much closer to this then was ever before.

[Dehuman]

Nice video.

I can't land the MiG like that though. Mine are always closer to a three point landing.

[BadHabit]

${1}

The most aggressive display I've found on youtube and the landing wow.

[Alfredson007]

 

I'd say it lines up pretty nicely with this video. The pilot has very crisp, sharp control over the aircraft.

 

If you watch the stick movement, you notice that he moves the stick much more than we do in DCS now though (i mean the 3d model, not your joystick, so axis tunes do not mean anything).

 

I personally feel that the correction on roll rate was a tad too aggressive but generally the direction is right.

 

Here is another clip (pretty loud)

 

I do not know his speed, but its got to be subsonic, earlier i could not replicate such 4- point roll in DCS mig21 at subsonic speeds but now i can.

[Fri13]

I do agree to some who say that there is something wrong. For me it is a very fine feeling how the "wing bytes", or in this case doesn't.

 

Like you can pitch up/down or yawn left/right and the aircraft doesn't change much its direction.

All the turns needs to be very slow and wide as otherwise it just starts stalling and "glides" by inertia without any "feeling" that wings would catch the air at all.

 

It can as well be seen in very small moves, where the aircraft does tiny 1-2 degree rolls very sharply, just like without any dampening or "lag".

 

The roll rate etc are now more like I have seen, capable to do the sharp rolls if wanted or go crazy. When before this patch it was like 35 degree per second roll at max and was like "what is holding me back" when being clean aircraft.

 

It is just that tiny feeling of the aircraft not having "turning capacity" by the missing "air grabbing" like it doesn't have any "claws".

 

That is the my problem in my humble opinion, probably very easily fixed (the tiny sharp rolls like in the first video) or then just my totally wrong feeling comparing what the aircraft does when at 1km altitude in 45 degree dive at 500km/h and the aircraft doesn't like to pull up unless going to hug the ground for a moment (that is the experience, not the exact data) if not just dive in by stalling.

 

I was having a quick generated flight against F-4 and just couldn't maneuver around it at all. Looking from external F2 view the F-4 (AI FM) just turned perfectly while my aircraft rolled and turned but flight path didn't change.

 

It just has this feeling like you would be driving a car on ice and lose the control for turning no matter how you rotate wheel when you are breaking.

 

So tiny feeling about something being "missing" that it raise question.

[Fri13]

[YOUTUBE]

[/YOUTUBE]

The most aggressive display I've found on youtube and the landing wow.

 

 

That moment. Just look how sharply she pitches up? I just can't get that experience. Instead it is like running on ice and trying to turn but you just keep going forward while aircraft pitches up and loses speed because high AoA.

[Pocket Sized]

 

That moment. Just look how sharply she pitches up? I just can't get that experience. Instead it is like running on ice and trying to turn but you just keep going forward while aircraft pitches up and loses speed because high AoA.

 

Keep the AoA right on the boarder between yellow and red. This is just a hair below CLmax and must be reduced before any lateral input.

 

I agree that the sudden "jolt" you get when exceeding critical AoA doesn't seem right. It should be a more gradual drop off in lift from what I've heard.

[m4ti140]

As AoA increases, response to aileron decreases. Airspeed doesn't matter that much :)

 

Your 'weird behavior' appears to be roll coupling. I don't know if it is realistic for this airframe or not.

 

It is, a guy in another thread has interviewed a retired Fishbed driver who confirmed the inertia coupling at r dot higher than 90 deg/s