One question what is the fidelity of M2KC flight model?

[DaveRindner]

One question what is the fidelity of M2KC flight model?

 

Is it 'realistic'?

Does it feel 'realistic'? OK this is subjective.

Are start up, operation, and weapons employment procedures detailed and accurate? Do they feel 'real'.

Specifically: Systems, avionics, and engine management. Weapons employment , effectiveness, and envelopes. Realistic stress limits on landing and TO. Flight departure proneness, and departure/spin recovery. Communication systems. AM/FM VHF/UHF, ILS, TACAN/GPS tactical navigation.

 

Do you consider it money well spend.?

 

I am more of procedures and tactics, and skills kind of guy, vs. action and victory. Though those are nice.

[lemoen]

Money very well spent yes.

 

"Realistic": Who knows, RAZBAM certainly tries very hard to make it as good as it can be. They've been tweaking the flight model constantly to get it 'just right' according to the information available.

 

"Are start up, operation, and weapons employment procedures detailed and accurate?" Yes they are.

 

The systems seems fully complete. We still need a weapon (anti-runway weapon). There is no engine management in the M2000, everything is automatic. There is also no departure, spin etc. It flies or it falls but it is very stable either way.

 

The M2000 is great because it is an excellent Air to air platform but it is also a decent strike aircraft so you can set up a nice variety of missions for it. The built-in campaign does this nicely.

[QuiGon]

I can only agree with what lemoen said. It's a great module and RAZBAM did everything they can to get it as realistic as possible given the information available to them. The systems are pretty much all simulated (except such things as IFF, which is not simulated in any DCS module), but keep in mind that this is a pretty modern (for DCS standards) aircraft and a lot of the systems are hands off and automatic, so there isn't as much interaction with the aircraft systems (apart from HOTAS stuff) as there is in some older aircraft.

[jaguara5]

Ι agree. It's highly recommended. I never thought that we could actually fly a dcs level m2000, due to the fact that there isn't much information available on the real aircraft on the net. You have to consider that the module isn't yet feature complete. But it is in an advanced state, and the missing things / bugs will come /resolved. Also, it is very interesting to fly a non us /russian aircraft, the french development approach is different in some systems

[Dehuman]

Are start up, operation, and weapons employment procedures detailed and accurate?

 

Start up can take up to 8 minutes for a full INS alignment or be very quick in an intercept/scramble configuration. I would say yes detailed and accurate but not complicated when compared to older aircraft and helos.

 

Specifically: Systems, avionics, and engine management. Weapons employment , effectiveness, and envelopes.

 

Here I think the Mirage really shines. You really get to feel the limits of a pulse doppler radar. There are some limits imposed upon the module in this regard by DCS itself (ground mapping etc) but these will be overcome in time.

 

Realistic stress limits on landing and TO.

 

Burst tires and broken landing gear? Yes this happens, took me a little while to get the flare just right for a delta wing. Load carried has a noticeable effect on its TO and landing.

 

Flight departure proneness, and departure/spin recovery.

 

The FBW system for the most part looks after itself here, thing the pilot has to watch is the energy state.

Getting into flat spins is nonetheless possible as is recovering.

 

Communication systems. AM/FM VHF/UHF, ILS, TACAN/GPS tactical navigation.

 

All of those except GPS,but the INS makes up for it. The ILS is excellent best currently in DCS.

[myHelljumper]

According to the data that we have it is very close to the real aircraft regarding the FM and systems.

[OnlyforDCS]

The flight model was kind of "rough around the edges" as the Mirage was overperforming in certain flight regimes, but in the last few patches it got some really nice updates that have brought it in line with what you would expect.

 

I'm very fond of it, it's actually really easy to learn, but hard to master. I really, really like the radar, very intuitive and easy to use.

 

Quite a capable BVR platform really, though short on armament. I frequently use most or all of my missiles to bring down one bandit when I take it online. But remember it's not an air superiority fighter, it's an interceptor.

[Skitter]

Hey guys, I recently started flying the M2k. Learning all the systems etc.. I tried to starve the engine flying upside down to train engine re-light procedure, but the engine just wouldn't die ! I take it that's not yet implemented ?

 

BTW . I think the module is very playable. But there seems to be some raw parts that needs polishing. Some buttons and features to be implemented, it seems to me.

 

I completely love the plane and really looking forward to the finished module.

 

Cheers

[CrashO]

Hey guys, I recently started flying the M2k. Learning all the systems etc.. I tried to starve the engine flying upside down to train engine re-light procedure, but the engine just wouldn't die ! I take it that's not yet implemented ?

 

Haven't tried flying inverted (longer then 5 seconds) for a few months, but engine stall after ~15 seconds used to be implemented.

[OnlyforDCS]

Hey guys, I recently started flying the M2k. Learning all the systems etc.. I tried to starve the engine flying upside down to train engine re-light procedure, but the engine just wouldn't die ! I take it that's not yet implemented ?

 

BTW . I think the module is very playable. But there seems to be some raw parts that needs polishing. Some buttons and features to be implemented, it seems to me.

 

I completely love the plane and really looking forward to the finished module.

 

Cheers

 

Yeah, you can do up to 15 seconds under -1 G or lower, after that your engine should crap out. Are you sure you are not inadvertently pulling some G?

[Skitter]

I am going to try again tonight. I was flying upside down for at least 30 seconds at 20 000ft. But....that's not enough right ? I have to pull some G as well right ?

[CrashO]

You could always turn off your boost pumps if you want a faster result..

[OnlyforDCS]

I have to pull some G as well right ?

 

Nope, pulling Gs will cancel the -1 G of the inverted flight. Hmmm if you are flying inverted, & straight and level for 30s or longer then something is definitely not working right.

[Skitter]

Haha , thanks CrashO, I could probably just switch the engine off :-)

[grunf]

Indeed, the engine flames out inverted after 15s or so, full AB.

 

To answer the OP's question, yes, it's well worth the money.

[Skitter]

OnlyforDCS , that's what I was doing. Just flying inverted for 30 seconds or more...unless I am missing some valid point. I'll check it out tonight, cheers.

 

EDIT: I think I was going pretty "slow"/easy, does it make a difference? grunf mentioned afterburner.

[mr_mojo97]

Yes, it's well worth the money. An awesome module. The IFF is implemented and the countermeasures suite I don't think is accurate but still it does is job and you probably wouldn't know the difference anyways. My everyday module. In fact probably the only module I fly these days. If it wasn't for my TM Warthog throttle slew dying I'd still be flying that too. Well done Razbam - looking forward to the Harrier too!!

[grunf]

OnlyforDCS , that's what I was doing. Just flying inverted for 30 seconds or more...unless I am missing some valid point. I'll check it out tonight, cheers.

 

EDIT: I think I was going pretty "slow"/easy, does it make a difference? grunf mentioned afterburner.

The throttle matters. As mentioned, it takes 15s to flameout in AB, 40s in full military, 3-4 minutes on idle :).

[Skitter]

The throttle matters. As mentioned, it takes 15s to flameout in AB, 40s in full military, 3-4 minutes on idle :).

 

It all makes sense now. Thanks :-)

[lemoen]

It all makes sense now. Thanks :-)

 

 

Yeah, there are smaller tanks that contains the fuel for when the aircraft is inverted or in negative G flight, but they're only so big, which is why throttle setting matters.

[Conroy]

It's worth the money, 100% but delta wings need some more skill. Be carefull.

 

Great module, love it.

[lemoen]

Let's not pretend this is not the most beautiful aircraft ever made.

 

[firmek]

...The systems seems fully complete. ...

There are still quite a few things that aren't complete or are not working correctly. Search on the forums.

Few quick that come to my mind is the INS update, some of PCN functionality or the BLG-66 which is just a 3D model. Manual is also really old and requires searching for information from other sources (like forum).

Anyway, regardless of that it's a great module plus it comes with a great campaing. Can't go wrong with it.

[myHelljumper]

Of course but I think the OP was asking about the fidelity of the simulated systems.

I think all of the above is acknowledged by RAZBAM and Zeus said they were locking to update the manual :).

But this kind of stuff is to be expected for a DCS early access/beta module ;).

[Slims]

Thing is work seems to have slowed down on the m2k, and there is still a lot of work to be done on the damage system of this module, as it is right now, you will get the same things to break on the plane regardless of what hits you, sam, AA missile, guns or whatever. Also some ground radar functions missing and not implemented. These damage model stuff have not been acknowledged by the devs and i don`t know if they ever get implemented. And as stated above still lots of stuff missing from the plane in terms of systems. Really hope this does not get abandoned, as it seems right now they moved on to another project.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Slims