insane roll rate - totally unrealistic

[Dugong]

How do you know EXACTLY the FM was changed due to some pressure? Is this the same way you came with the numbers you followed?

 

 

I don't understand your question, but 0.4rad per grad is from Polish air force technical manual.

 

How do you test those 0.4 radians per seconds etc??? Don't tell me you fly the plane in game and move the stick. Please don't!

 

 

Thank you for the insult, but if you want planes nerfed to your personal preferences and lack of ability i suggest you go play world of warplanes. FYI testing is recording video and playing back in video editing software so EXACT time of roll can be established.

 

I suspect the ACTUAL issue is one of angular stick deflection vs distance movement at grip point in the real aircraft vs joystick. Joystick grip to pivot point is only a few inches, but real flight stick is a couple of feet, thus if you deflect both sticks say 10 angular degrees, your hand has moved only mm with the joystick, but inches with the flight stick. This makes joystick feel more twitchy, but the solution was not to cut the roll rate to HALF the real thing.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Dugong

[zaelu]

There is no insult, I just told you directly that if you test "by eye" moving your stick and watching the screen you are wrong. Are you offended if someone tells you are wrong?

 

First thing is that you assume I "want planes nerfed to your personal preferences and lack of ability". You could have read what I wrote in this thread and you could have seen that I said I can get used even with the big sensitivity it had before and which was due to how my FFB stick is working by design and also I posted a movie which can show the basic ability to fly this.

 

Then you said that you tested something that if you are not a dev to use special tools and you don't provide a description and a method is basically uncertain certainty.

 

You see... people here say: "I feel the roll is insane" or "I feel the roll rate is too fast" or "I feel the maximum roll rate is attained too fast" etc... that's OK... people feel. You say you measured some decimals? Wait... What?

 

How are you sure you measured that degree of aileron travel?

 

Have you seen the first movie I posted where I show how you can shake the ailerons A LOT even in transonic speeds? Do you think that 1 degree matters?

 

Do you test with all the parameters locked? Meaning you can actually input joystick controls digitally (quantifiable) and you can isolate other movements? Can you actually control your plane to be in the absolute same situation as that polish plane? Are you sure Dolphin has the same plane?

 

What is you FPS during your tests?

 

Not even watching live stream from TacView is reliable to be certain something is wrong. You can say 'you feel' based on your test that something is wrong but unless you test the same as the devs and you post your method so it can be reproduced by devs you can't be sure.

 

There are to many variables and all are uncertain so is exactly like in that formula to find out how many extraterrestrial civilisations are... all uncertainties has to multiply one with the other and will "certainly" not give you a certainty .

 

The devs use a tool of their own to test parameters like on a bench. They don't fly around and gauge by the eye how many times the plane rolled if they tilted the stick a bit this much...

Edited April 30, 2017 by zaelu

[Golo]

The devs use a tool of their own to test parameters like on a bench. They don't fly around and gauge by the eye how many times the plane rolled if they tilted the stick a bit this much...

 

That is true, but I only hope their FM is not influenced by threads like "I feel the roll is insane" and right after that comes "1.5.6.xxx Update 3 - Decreased roll rate"

Because it seems so in this case and I absolutely cant have that and will cancel all support for that developer.

[Wizard_03]

That's what I'm talking about. Not that the devs need to provide explanation every single time they update the FM. But when there's a concern like this thread for example wither it's justified or not. It would be nice too hear from them on issue. Because they are the experts. Their word should be the last word on something like this.

[=37.Sqn= Mjugen]

That is true, but I only hope their FM is not influenced by threads like "I feel the roll is insane" and right after that comes "1.5.6.xxx Update 3 - Decreased roll rate"

Because it seems so in this case and I absolutely cant have that and will cancel all support for that developer.

 

 

 

 

This, what Golo wrote, I have the same feeling that dev just did that and change roll rate, influenced by forum threads. And now I lost all the confidence into the Mig FM and M3 as devs.

[Dehuman]

stuff

 

OK

 

I feel the roll rate is now far too low.

With my above average albeit still limited knowledge of physics I feel the MiG-21 should have a very rapid roll rate and I feel that a full and sustained deflection of aileron and rudder at 900kmh IAS should either cause a loss of control of the aircraft, something to break, or the pilot to lose consciousness.

 

I feel the plane was nerfed based on the histrionics of a few.

[humptydumpty]

Why not let Dolphin decide what is right and what is wrong ? I am sure the real changes would come

[Lanius]

OK

 

I feel the roll rate is now far too low.

With my above average albeit still limited knowledge of physics I feel the MiG-21 should have a very rapid roll rate and I feel that a full and sustained deflection of aileron and rudder at 900kmh IAS should either cause a loss of control of the aircraft, something to break, or the pilot to lose consciousness.

 

I feel the plane was nerfed based on the histrionics of a few.

 

 

Least at nevada map Mig21 still enters black out spin to death.

[Sarraceno]

Why not let Dolphin decide what is right and what is wrong ? I am sure the real changes would come

 

And still he told previous FM was closer to the real fishbed than before.... however, i think that its maybe a stopgap measure untill they may find how to put the inertia at high speeds which lacked.... i'm dissapointed by this FM change "because reasons"... but at least you're not entering spins all time like 2 patches ago

[BadHabit]

On another thread. Here is a guy with knowledge and a proper opinion about the FM. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3126130&postcount=68

I think I am gonna stick with what he said.

[Dugong]

On another thread. Here is a guy with knowledge and a proper opinion about the FM. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3126130&postcount=68

I think I am gonna stick with what he said.

 

Yet in the post you quote, he says whilst the yaw and pitch are good the ROLL is not and still needs work.

 

Did you even read it or did you get as far as the word 'good' and let your confirmation bias take over?

[BadHabit]

Did you also read my post or you woke up angry? I said nothing about what is right or not. "Here is a guy with knowledge and a proper opinion about the FM.

I think I am gonna stick with what he said."