Upgrading MOBO and CPU: what needs to be done to DCS/Windows before/after?

[Bearfoot]

So I am thinking of upgrading my current MOBO and CPU, from i7-4790K + Z97 Sabertooth Mk1 to a i7-7700K + MSI Enthusiastic Gaming Intel Z270.

 

The current system is running on Windows 10 Home (Creator's Edition) on one SSD drive, with DCS installed on another.

 

After I swap out the MOBO and CPU, will I just be able to plug in my drives and boot into Windows 10?

 

Or will I need to do a fresh install of Windows 10?

 

If the latter, I assume that I will need to deactivate DCS before I swap out the MOBO and then re-activate DCS on the new machine? If so, is there a way to deactivate all my modules online instead of deactivating it one by one in DCS itself in the old machine?

[JG14_Smil]

Hello,

 

I don't have an answer, but deactivating modules in the module manager is easy as checking a checkbox.

 

I would recommend a clean Windows install after a good backup of the important items.

[BitMaster]

So I am thinking of upgrading my current MOBO and CPU, from i7-4790K + Z97 Sabertooth Mk1 to a i7-7700K + MSI Enthusiastic Gaming Intel Z270.

 

The current system is running on Windows 10 Home (Creator's Edition) on one SSD drive, with DCS installed on another.

 

After I swap out the MOBO and CPU, will I just be able to plug in my drives and boot into Windows 10?

 

Or will I need to do a fresh install of Windows 10?

 

If the latter, I assume that I will need to deactivate DCS before I swap out the MOBO and then re-activate DCS on the new machine? If so, is there a way to deactivate all my modules online instead of deactivating it one by one in DCS itself in the old machine?

 

Unless you just won the lottery this is not recommended....4790k-->7700k = non existent boost.

 

You would be very disappointed 1k€ later !!!

 

The only benefit is platform wise, more PCI-E lanes, M2, DDR4, USB3.1c and that's about it.

 

I like my 7700k, no question, but if I had had a 4790k I would have never upgraded, not even from my beloved 2600k that served so well. If that hadn't quit on my I'd still be running that one, forget M2 and 3.1c....not really a game changer.

[Bearfoot]

Unless you just won the lottery this is not recommended....4790k-->7700k = non existent boost.

 

You would be very disappointed 1k€ later !!!

 

The only benefit is platform wise, more PCI-E lanes, M2, DDR4, USB3.1c and that's about it.

 

I like my 7700k, no question, but if I had had a 4790k I would have never upgraded, not even from my beloved 2600k that served so well. If that hadn't quit on my I'd still be running that one, forget M2 and 3.1c....not really a game changer.

 

Yes! This also became clear from the other thread. Thanks --- you and Demon_ have saved me $1K!

[Bearfoot]

But it is curious how people with i7-6700K can get 45/90 FPS in places where I only get 22/45? https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3125867#post3125867

[Automan]

The chipset of the mobo counts:

Z97 support DMI 2.0(5GT/s) with PCI-e 2.0 8 lanes and use DDR3

Z170 support DMi 3.0(8GT/s) with PCI-e 3.0 20 lanes and use DDR4

 

A video becnhmark with same RAM amount-GPU-SSD shows off 8-10% performance increase with Z170/6700K/DDR4:

 

 

 

I would wait June for the X299 Platform, LGA2066 with a Kabylake-X 7740K

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by Automan

[Bearfoot]

The chipset of the mobo counts:

Z97 support DMI 2.0(5GT/s) with PCI-e 2.0 8 lanes and use DDR3

Z170 support DMi 3.0(8GT/s) with PCI-e 3.0 20 lanes and use DDR4

 

A video becnhmark with same RAM amount-GPU-SSD shows off 8-10% performance increase with Z170/6700K/DDR4:

 

 

 

I would wait June for the X299 Platform, LGA2066 with a Kabylake-S 7740K

 

 

Ahhhh, this explains a LOT!

 

Thanks!

 

OK, so a MOBO upgrade will help and the CPU is just a (small) side benefit.

 

Interesting regarding the X299. This seems to indicate that the early releases will actually be more limited?

 

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/intel_x299_motherboard_spotted_with_an_i7_7740k_cpu/1

 

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/processors/42821-intel-response-to-ryzen-is-kaby-lake-x

[Automan]

Unpredictable for now what expect from kabylake-x lineup.

But every people know that the best intel chipsets for gaming in the last 10 years have an X before the number...

Take a look on a discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/66uk0w/are_the_skylakex_and_kabylakex_worth_waiting_for/?st=j253ajek&sh=e81c5ab5

[Bearfoot]

Unpredictable for now what expect from kabylake-x lineup.

But every people know that the best intel chipsets for gaming in the last 10 years have an X before the number...

Take a look on a discussion here: https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/66uk0w/are_the_skylakex_and_kabylakex_worth_waiting_for/?st=j253ajek&sh=e81c5ab5

 

Thanks for the link. Makes for some really interesting reading. Looking through it with an eye to improve DCS performance --- i.e. a resolutely single-core game --- it seems that there might not be that much benefit?

 

• A lot of gaming depends on high-frequency single-thread performance, and these chips will certainly not beat a 5.0ghz OC'd 7700k in that area.
  
• [X299 motherboards] It seems it only have 16 PCIE-lanes for the GPUs. With that info it is really misplaced on the X299 platform as you would gain nothing to go from 7700K to 7740K.
  
• So I would say if you want the X299 platform, go for a 6 core at least, or else I suspect the Z270 and its successor are better options for you and your wallet.
  
• Skylake-X? I say yes, particularly for people who run multi-GPU setups or have lots of PCI-e devices: both are cases where more CPU-connected PCI-e lanes can make a noticeable performance difference (I'm keeping my eye out for a 6850K update in Skylake-X). Of course, that all depends on pricing and performance.
  Kaby Lake-X? I doubt it. Honestly, I dunno what Intel's thinking with this particular product. I doubt that those chips will get significantly higher clocks relative to the 7700K, and we won't get a bump in CPU lanes or access to quad-channel memory. Maybe if you're an extreme overclocker, having a 4c/8t CPU without the burden of an iGPU will let you push your systems just a little bit further. Otherwise, I don't see Kaby Lake-X being worth the HEDT "platform tax," as it were.
  

 

 

So maybe the only advantage for DCS is potentially lower prices on the i7-7700 and z270?

[Automan]

Well, I think DCS is optimized for 4C actually, and mostly core speed dependent.

Some performance analysis taken here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=157374

 

As you see 4C and 6C are near the same results

 

A clear performance boost at higher clock rate (with a discrepancy on min FPS of 4.3ghz clock maybe due to throttling)

 

Obvious: same memory architecture, higher mhz=higher FPS

 

About your request for Z270+i7-7700 solution, yes it is 250$ cheaper, but rumors say that kabylake-x can be pushed a lot over 5.0ghz...and remember that you can in future put in the beast: Skylake-X 12C/24T

[Demon_]

8 lanes is plenty for any GPU on either 3.0 or 2.0 slot.

[Pilotasso]

for DCS there is not much to gain from haswell to kaby lake. (for everything else: thats a completely different story)

 

At this point I suspect DCS has been processor maxed out (due to engine, API and CPU tech limitations) and is rather increasingly GPU bound.

 

In order to change this, ED would have to switch to DX12 and place stuff like a beefier flight model, missile, radar modeling and world events on separate cores and then crank the complexity of each thread up for added detail. But that wont happen any time soon.

[BitMaster]

for DCS there is not much to gain from haswell to kaby lake. (for everything else: thats a completely different story)

 

At this point I suspect DCS has been processor maxed out (due to engine, API and CPU tech limitations) and is rather increasingly GPU bound.

 

In order to change this, ED would have to switch to DX12 and place stuff like a beefier flight model, missile, radar modeling and world events on separate cores and then crank the complexity of each thread up for added detail. But that wont happen any time soon.

 

+1

 

my findings are very similar and one should not forget the pending merge, things will change again.

[Bearfoot]

+1

 

my findings are very similar and one should not forget the pending merge, things will change again.

 

What do you think of the idea that my motherboard is the limiting factor here?

[BitMaster]

Well, you know this is very "personal" and may not apply.

 

Despite my frames are not "that" much better than I had with the 2600k system @ 4.8 before, what I think is better is the responsivness with just about everything. This is hard to measure and may come & go with small changes to the hardware used and it's settings.

 

I would not bet that it will be like bronze to gold, but silver to gold is something I could sign, lemme put it this way. Tho it will come at a high price as you will have to buy very fast RAM to get latency down...and that RAM just got quite expensive, those beyond 3000MHz.

 

Fact is also, that the higher you push the CPU on OC the harder ( and really frustrating hard ) it will be t stabilze it WITH fast RAM. So there is a little "?" in the game.

 

I would maybe not take my board again if I was out for 4133MHz RAM but would take the ME-IX or Formula ( 4 slots ) and get the fastest 32GB kit with 4 modules money can buy :).

 

The RAM will likely be towards 400€ and this be the most expensive part of all.

 

But look at Pilotasso's thread, he's working his new Ryzen 1700x through the paces and DCS. His statements make me think a 1700 or 1700x might very well be a perfect match

for DCS. Both platforms are not ripe but the Z270 might be the one you can get fast NOW, with 32GB RAM whereas with the AMD you still need to have some patience till RAM issues have been ironed out ( 16GB is not what you should buy, go 32 right away in 1 Kit ).

[Bearfoot]

Well, you know this is very "personal" and may not apply.

 

Despite my frames are not "that" much better than I had with the 2600k system @ 4.8 before, what I think is better is the responsivness with just about everything. This is hard to measure and may come & go with small changes to the hardware used and it's settings.

 

I would not bet that it will be like bronze to gold, but silver to gold is something I could sign, lemme put it this way. Tho it will come at a high price as you will have to buy very fast RAM to get latency down...and that RAM just got quite expensive, those beyond 3000MHz.

 

Fact is also, that the higher you push the CPU on OC the harder ( and really frustrating hard ) it will be t stabilze it WITH fast RAM. So there is a little "?" in the game.

 

I would maybe not take my board again if I was out for 4133MHz RAM but would take the ME-IX or Formula ( 4 slots ) and get the fastest 32GB kit with 4 modules money can buy :).

 

The RAM will likely be towards 400€ and this be the most expensive part of all.

 

But look at Pilotasso's thread, he's working his new Ryzen 1700x through the paces and DCS. His statements make me think a 1700 or 1700x might very well be a perfect match

for DCS. Both platforms are not ripe but the Z270 might be the one you can get fast NOW, with 32GB RAM whereas with the AMD you still need to have some patience till RAM issues have been ironed out ( 16GB is not what you should buy, go 32 right away in 1 Kit ).

 

Personal opinions welcome! The challenge is to translate to my situation. And my situation is that in VR, I am struggling to clear 22/23 FPS in some missions in which some other folks are getting 45/90.

 

So, I have, as noted above, an i7-4790K @ 4.4 Mhz + z97, 16GB RAM [tried 32GB but no improvement], 1080Ti, SSD.

 

Folks getting the higher FPS have:

 

• i7-6700K 4.20Ghz | Asus Maximus VIII Hero Alpha| nVidia GTX 1080ti Strix OC 11GB | 16GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200Mhz DDR4 CL1
  
• I7 6700K, Asus Z170 Pro Gaming, EVGA GTX1080Ti SC, 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000
  

 

though one other person getting the same FPS as me in VR has the following:

 

• i7 7700k 32gigs ddr4 3000, gigabyte gaming 3 mobo, intel m.2 ssd, 980ti vid
  

 

 

I know there are many other variables (though all these cases including mine using Rift), but everyone involved has played around the with all the graphics settings as well as, e.g. disabled hyperthreading, to get the best performance. So how to crunch this data?

 

It seems both in the "haves" and "have nots", GPU, memory, and memory speed alone are not a factor. The only other thing I can think of is the combination of 1080Ti GPU and Z170/Z270 MOBO and post-Haswell (Skylake and above) CPU's?

 

So maybe even the modest gains of each combine to "break" the 45FPS barrier?

 

Or is this fuzzy-new-agey-hopeful-but-totally-delusional thinking?

[Demon_]

First, get a better CPU cooler and crank it to 4.7-4.8Ghz.

Much cheaper than to buy a new trio or duo (CPU, Mobo, RAM).

[Bearfoot]

First, get a better CPU cooler and crank it to 4.7-4.8Ghz.

Much cheaper than to buy a new trio or duo (CPU, Mobo, RAM).

 

 

Thanks!

 

This makes sense, and I guess I can reuse the cooler if/when I upgrade.

 

I am currently looking at an all-in-one water cooler. New to this, but from what I can make out from reviews, the following seem like reputable candidates:

 

Corsair H115i 104.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler

 

NZXT Kraken X62 All-in-One CPU Liquid Cooling System Cooling

 

I read that I should be concerned about the mixed metal on the Corsair --- galvanic corrosion --- but at the same time, that Corsair is very, very, reliable.

[Demon_]

The Kraken's radiator is thicker, the fans are less noisy (1800rpm and less). But Bit knows about water stuff...

Be sure it fits in your case.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Demon_

[WRAITH]

 

Folks getting the higher FPS have:

 

• i7-6700K 4.20Ghz | Asus Maximus VIII Hero Alpha| nVidia GTX 1080ti Strix OC 11GB | 16GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200Mhz DDR4 CL1
  
• I7 6700K, Asus Z170 Pro Gaming, EVGA GTX1080Ti SC, 32 GB DDR4 @ 3000
  

 

though one other person getting the same FPS as me in VR has the following:

 

• i7 7700k 32gigs ddr4 3000, gigabyte gaming 3 mobo, intel m.2 ssd, 980ti vid
  

 

 

They are good gaming rigs thats why, where "Speed and Balance" are a match.

 

Good GAMING MOBO + CPU + GFX CARD + Plenty of Performance RAM etc

 

Also forget water cooling get a quality "DUAL FAN HEATSINK" !

 

I posted here - https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3119211&postcount=53

 

Its your choice of course, but I would wait another 12 months or a bit longer after the merge of 1.5 - 2.0 etc

 

Then they will optimize the sim for best performance nothing now is good for benchmarking PC's as all is Alpha and Beta state.

 

Which means not finished or optimized for hardware, in other words.

 

Again my opinion and choices we all have to make I guess.

 

I am choosing to wait longer before I go nuts on my next PC build for gaming.

Edited May 2, 2017 by WRAITH

[wash_hoban]

I toyed with the idea of upgrading my current aging system but decided against it (it was going to cost a lot to go to 7700K or 6700K based system)

 

i5 2500K at 4.4Ghz with a zotac 1080ti amp edition

 

The best thing I did in the last year was to buy a 34" Asus Gsync monitor , it was the thing that made the best difference to my gaming experience

[Demon_]

Hyper threading is useless for DCS (gaming), get a i5 7600K. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=186161

[Bearfoot]

They are good gaming rigs thats why, where "Speed and Balance" are a match.

 

Good GAMING MOBO + CPU + GFX CARD + Plenty of Performance RAM etc

 

Also forget water cooling get a quality "DUAL FAN HEATSINK" !

 

I posted here - https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3119211&postcount=53

 

Its your choice of course, but I would wait another 12 months or a bit longer after the merge of 1.5 - 2.0 etc

 

Then they will optimize the sim for best performance nothing now is good for benchmarking PC's as all is Alpha and Beta state.

 

Which means not finished or optimized for hardware, in other words.

 

Again my opinion and choices we all have to make I guess.

 

I am choosing to wait longer before I go nuts on my next PC build for gaming.

 

Thanks for this. I replied to the original thread with questions!