Terrible VR stuttering in 1.5 with 1080 Ti and Oculus Rift

[VampireNZ]

@VampireNZ sorry I misunderstood, but your CPU not showing maxed out does not mean it isnt maxed out. The way windows works on a single threaded application is that it tries to be smart and move what synchronous work it can around to the various cores and hyperthreads. Because of this you may never reach 100% utilization as far as a CPU chart is concerned. But you are indeed maxing out the number of calculations that can be handled by your CPU in a synchronous operation. Hopefully that helps you understand more what I mean by DCS being CPU bound (it is bound to the limitation of the processing power of the process from your CPU). My case in point here is simply that if you add more CPU power, you get more frames.

 

Anyway, ya I dunno what your blip is, I will try and see if I get the same using the same tool. However, if I do I dunno that anyone here would be able to really answer it for you.

 

As for the looking to the side and seeing judder, I believe this is something else. I don't want to come to any conclusions publicly on this as I'm not 100% sure what it is, but have an idea... ill post more if I can confirm. I do see it as well at 90 fps, though, it is less obvious.

 

Thanks very much Jabbers :thumbup:.

 

Yeah I am pretty familiar with CPU-bound games, particularly in the form of FSX in the way it doesn't utilise CPU cores correctly, and solely relies on brute CPU freq for speed - but at least that manages to max out one core. But thanks for your description on how DCS in particular effectively 'spreads out' this one-core-max load, so you don't see it so easily but it is still happening.

I am sure all this is probably already in the forum somewhere, and you guyys get sick of explaining it, but I am just back to DCS after a pretty long break (waiting for DCS 2.0/new engine/super-modernisation of DCS that was going to happen 'back in the day' :lookaround: ).

I mean I have run DCS just in normal screen mode to compare to what I remember DCS was, and got like a bazillion FPS so I can't complain that much I guess - it has improved. I just don't have a 2D screen on my gaming rig anymore, so it is VR or nothing....so back to square one it seems for performance (VR gaming is like being back in the 80's lol).

 

But yeah, any further investigation on your part would be greatly appreciated! I am not 100% sure the sideways judder/jumping and the blips are strictly related, they just 'seem' to coincide. But they are the main PITA, I can obviously live with some blip on a graph if the scenery rolls past smoothly - no probs! I guess these 'judders/stutters' are WAY more noticeable in VR as well, as it isn't just a blip of the scenery on the screen - the WHOLE world jumps sideways a bit - which is pretty rough on the old vestibular system.....and dogfighting like a maniac gives me no problems at all!

I am dying to get some more modules as VR & DCS is wicked...just can't really do it the way it is now.

Edited May 11, 2017 by VampireNZ

[ram0506]

So I tried last night with the Ti, first Normandy.... and holy cow the settings were maxed (no AA) and at 1.5PD I got 45+ fps constantly. For reference I couldn`t really break 20FPS with the same settings on my 1080GTX.

 

As for 1.5, minimal difference. I boil this down to 1.5 just not being an optimized engine, and completely CPU bound. I didn't really notice many micro stutters, or anything out of the ordinary from my 1080GTX, seemed pretty much on par. This makes sense to me, as it is not optimized, and OC your CPU seems to increase frames even on the 1080.

 

Hi Jabbers,

I´m also running a GTX1080Ti for a few weeks now. For DCS 1.5 and 2.0 I´m using maxed settings, reduced is only view to ultra, AA to 2x and shadows to flat/medium.

Performance on Nevada map is very good, I can stay always above 45fps, only over the center of Vegas sometimes below, down to minimums of 35/40fps and a few hick-ups when ASW jumps in. But nothing too serious that causes me to lower settings.

As you described, performance on 1.5 is not that good, but I think missing optimizations can be blamed for that. Overall performance still ok.

When it comes to flying in VR on the Normandy map on 2.1 I really can`t get the performance you described.

Playing in 2D on monitor I use the high settings I posted above and get always at least 60fps, which means absolutely smooth game play everywhere on the map with Vsync enabled. Even circling low above Caen and looking around is absolutely smooth.

Changing to the Rift, performance is a disaster for me. I have to reduce settings to medium, view to medium, AA off, shadows to flat,low, PD to 1.5 better to 1.3, just to get 45fps when flying low. No chance to maintain 45fps even with the reduced settings, when circling low above Caen. Fps are falling sometimes down to 25, lots of juddering.

What I found out is, as long as you fly straight and look forward, game play is ok, fps stay at 45. As soon as you start turning (above Caen, or even smaller cities) fps are falling rapidly.

As performance on 2.0 and on 2.1 with monitor is very good, I don`t think those performance troubles on Normandy map are related to some kind of hardware or drivers issue.

Still hoping for optimizations for Normandy in VR.;)

Edited May 12, 2017 by ram0506

[Boris]

These discrepancies and differences between versions, maps and different but equally powerful systems is just bizarre.

[Haukka81]

Bit off topic but fast ram helps :

 

 

Sent when im drunk with my iphone near me :)

[Jabbers_]

Hi Jabbers,

I´m also running a GTX1080Ti for a few weeks now. For DCS 1.5 and 2.0 I´m using maxed settings, reduced is only view to ultra, AA to 2x and shadows to flat/medium.

Performance on Nevada map is very good, I can stay always above 45fps, only over the center of Vegas sometimes below, down to minimums of 35/40fps and a few hick-ups when ASW jumps in. But nothing too serious that causes me to lower settings.

As you described, performance on 1.5 is not that good, but I think missing optimizations can be blamed for that. Overall performance still ok.

When it comes to flying in VR on the Normandy map on 2.1 I really can`t get the performance you described.

Playing in 2D on monitor I use the high settings I posted above and get always at least 60fps, which means absolutely smooth game play everywhere on the map with Vsync enabled. Even circling low above Caen and looking around is absolutely smooth.

Changing to the Rift, performance is a disaster for me. I have to reduce settings to medium, view to medium, AA off, shadows to flat,low, PD to 1.5 better to 1.3, just to get 45fps when flying low. No chance to maintain 45fps even with the reduced settings, when circling low above Caen. Fps are falling sometimes down to 25, lots of juddering.

What I found out is, as long as you fly straight and look forward, game play is ok, fps stay at 45. As soon as you start turning (above Caen, or even smaller cities) fps are falling rapidly.

As performance on 2.0 and on 2.1 with monitor is very good, I don`t think those performance troubles on Normandy map are related to some kind of hardware or drivers issue.

Still hoping for optimizations for Normandy in VR.;)

 

Weird, I definitely don't have this issue. Our machines are pretty close to. What was your pre-load radius set too? I can try and make a video of it tonight, you can see the settings and such as well. maybe i can send you the track file and you can see if you get the same results.

[ram0506]

Pre-load radius is in the middle of the settings bar. Can't tell the exact value now as I'm not at my PC at the moment. Don't worry about a vid or a track, it's not that I don't believe you.:)Just wondering what the problem of the map in VR is for me. I already found out, that in game AA is a performance killer, as well as view distance. Strangely the impact of shadows on performance is not that big for me.

 

P.S: As a tester do you have a different version of the Normandy map or do you play on the downloadable pre-alpha?

Edited May 12, 2017 by ram0506

[Jabbers_]

Pre-load radius is in the middle of the settings bar. Can't tell the exact value now as I'm not at my PC at the moment. Don't worry about a vid or a track, it's not that I don't believe you.:)Just wondering what the problem of the map in VR is for me. I already found out, that in game AA is a performance killer, as well as view distance. Strangely the impact of shadows on performance is not that big for me.

 

P.S: As a tester do you have a different version of the Normandy map or do you play on the downloadable pre-alpha?

 

No other versions, just the one you have. I set my pre-load radius all the way to the max, 32 gb of ram, I'm not really worried about the pre-load... maybe try this? My view distance is also only at High, this is a good happy medium for me.

[ram0506]

Pre-load radius doesn`t seem to have any effect on the performance on my rig, no matter if I set it to minimum or maximum, frames stay the same.

After some more testing it seems that I underrated the impact of shadows. When I turn them off I get constant 45fps even over Caen at least at medium settings (view distance high). But hey, that`s not why I bought myself the new graphics card; having to turn off shadows, turn off AA, settings to medium just to get a smooth game play.

Ok, I will wait for the official release of the Normandy map and then come back and have a look at it again.

Sorry, Boris, for getting this thread a bit off the track.

Edited May 12, 2017 by ram0506

[Jabbers_]

Well to be fair, you shouldnt AA in VR, you should use PD for that. Ill screenshot my settings tonight.

[VampireNZ]

Well to be fair, you shouldnt AA in VR, you should use PD for that. Ill screenshot my settings tonight.

 

Don't you find you get nasty shimmering on instruments etc with no AA, regardless of PD setting?

 

Any luck investigating those blips/stutters?

[Haukka81]

Don't you find you get nasty shimmering on instruments etc with no AA, regardless of PD setting?

 

Any luck investigating those blips/stutters?

 

 

 

Least 2xAA is must , i hate shinmering and least in my tests even 2.0 PD wont be enough alone.

 

I hope that dcs gets better VR support someday, in IL2BOS its near perfect , really good sharppen post prosessing filtter, dithering to get rid off color banding etc..

 

I like dcs more because jets so this is just friendly example what i mean with good VR support thing. I dont mean to make it dcs vs "any sim here" , those threads can stay in different forums.

 

I hope that this okay for Forum rules.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Sent when im drunk with my iphone near me :)

[ram0506]

Agree, Haukka81, on everything you said.;)

 

And yes, I would like to set AA at least to 2x just to get rid of some of the shimmering/flickering. This becomes very obvious when you look at buildings/cities. Or have a look at the fences at airfields.

Edited May 13, 2017 by ram0506

[Jabbers_]

Maybe I've just got use to it, or dont care as much as you, but the performance decrease of AA in VR isnt worth the "benefit" to me.

 

I havent had a chance, but i do see the blips you speak of on the debug tool, in all versions of dcs.

[Grippen7]

Hi all,

 

I've the same stutter issues. I've the new 1080GTX with an 6700K and 32GB RAM

Looks like it started after the last Windows update.

Installed new firmware and drivers but no results.

How to fix this?

 

Best regards Grippen7

[hansangb]

Could you try the F-5E instant mission take-off? I get ~45 FPS on the runway, and then after taking off, I circle back over the airport, and the FPS drops to 22-23. In this mission's case, I suspect it is the clouds/rain.

 

If you happen to have the F-5E BFM campaign, fly the second mission (familiarization flight) ... this, for me, is the real FPS killer.

 

 

Bearfoot, is this in 1.5 or 2.x? I know the thread is 1.5, but wanted to make sure.

 

OK tried both for F5 Instant actionTakeoff

 

For 1.5 I got 90FPS while on the runway, then for the most part stayed at 45FPS. There were a fair amount of clouds.

For 2.0.5, I got 45FPS while on the runway, then after take off it dipped to 39 or so every once in a while. But for the most part, it was at 45FPS. Fair amount of clouds and I believe it was raining. I saved the track if anyone is interested. First time flying the F5 so I crashed and burned on landing LOL.

 

 

DCS 1.5.6.5119 setting

 

 

 

DCS 2.0.5.3889 setting

Edited May 13, 2017 by hansangb

[Grippen7]

Hi all,

 

At the moment both DCS versions are unplayable for me. :cry:

I see all the time the sandbox loading icon and the game crashes in a black screen.

All otther VR Apps running fine, it is just DCS.

I had 90 FPS before but I cant compare much because I have my Oculus just a week running.

Is there some setup guide for DCS World in combination with the Oculus and a GTX 1080? :smartass:

 

Best regards Grippen7

[Grippen7]

Hsb,

 

Why are you running 1920 x 1200 and not 1920 x 1080?

 

Best regards Grippen7

[VampireNZ]

Maybe I've just got use to it, or dont care as much as you, but the performance decrease of AA in VR isnt worth the "benefit" to me.

 

I havent had a chance, but i do see the blips you speak of on the debug tool, in all versions of dcs.

 

OK, thanks Jabbers.

Yeah unfortunately aliasing and shimmer are just two things I really hate in any display format.

I will generally forego performance to get rid of jaggies, I guess it just makes me feel like I am playing a game from the 80/90's on my Amiga 500 or something.

[hansangb]

Hsb,

 

Why are you running 1920 x 1200 and not 1920 x 1080?

 

Best regards Grippen7

 

 

I have two DCS startup. One that goes into monitor mode and one that goes into VR. When you go into VR, it doesn't matter what you set the resolution as it will auto-detect the Rift.

 

I use the non-VR mode to setup controls, change settings etc.

[hansangb]

Hi all,

 

At the moment both DCS versions are unplayable for me. :cry:

I see all the time the sandbox loading icon and the game crashes in a black screen.

All otther VR Apps running fine, it is just DCS.

I had 90 FPS before but I cant compare much because I have my Oculus just a week running.

Is there some setup guide for DCS World in combination with the Oculus and a GTX 1080? :smartass:

 

Best regards Grippen7

 

Latest drivers and updated DCS? Make sure you have Oculus set to run "untrusted apps" or something like that. Also, can you fire it up w/o VR? You can use SkateZilla's utility to quickly fire up DCS w/ and w/o VR.

 

Finally, do you have DCS installed on SSD?

 

See link below for SkateZilla's utility:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=160053

[Kayos]

You can also just make a shortcut for DCS and add the switch " --force_disable_VR"

That way you can have one Icon for VR & one for non VR

[Bearfoot]

Bearfoot, is this in 1.5 or 2.x? I know the thread is 1.5, but wanted to make sure.

 

OK tried both for F5 Instant actionTakeoff

 

For 1.5 I got 90FPS while on the runway, then for the most part stayed at 45FPS. There were a fair amount of clouds.

For 2.0.5, I got 45FPS while on the runway, then after take off it dipped to 39 or so every once in a while. But for the most part, it was at 45FPS. Fair amount of clouds and I believe it was raining. I saved the track if anyone is interested. First time flying the F5 so I crashed and burned on landing LOL.

 

 

Ah, yes, I'm afraid I added confusion because in my mind I mean 2.0.5. Either way, your performance is a little better than mine. But that little means a lot -- 45FPS is fine, 22/23 is not. I have an i7-4790K that I just OC'd to 4.7 Mhz, with 16 GB DDR3 1800 on a Z97a1 mobo. GPU is the same: 1080 Ti .

[nayu05]

Hello,

 

I was playing arround recently, trying to understand how the game behave and particularly looking for the cpu bottleneck point.

 

It turn out the game was a lot more GPU limited than i though (actually to the point I have a hard time believing it and suspecting there is something ****ed up).

 

In any case, i realised as I was lowering the setting a lot that the game started to cap the FPS (64fps for me) when the display was too simple.

Don’t ask me! I have no clue!

 

I had to "stress" my computer with something else to push back the FPS to the max (in my test we are talking 64fps with the game alone, instead of 200fps with something running on the side (a video or something, it doesn’t matter).

 

I can’t explain it (though, I remember having to do something similar with some game 15yers ago)

 

From what I tested and seeing your problem it might be that somehow your GPU is starving, even in VR in 1.5 and the "cap" show up.

 

On my side the problem appeared as I was benchmarking the game on a very low resolution on one screen only.

 

When I really play it is in VR and even with low setting my 980ti is not starving. But the 1080ti is really much more powerful so the thing that happened to me looking for the CPU bottleneck (witch is very high from what i tested so i doubt your CPU is your problem) point might happen to you in VR.

 

I would try to push the resolution multiplier to be sure that the GPU is not starving and see how it behave.

[Grippen7]

I have two DCS startup. One that goes into monitor mode and one that goes into VR. When you go into VR, it doesn't matter what you set the resolution as it will auto-detect the Rift.

 

I use the non-VR mode to setup controls, change settings etc.

 

Ok Thanks,

 

And the resolution 1920 x 1800 is for your other monitor?

 

Best regards Grippen7

[Grippen7]

Latest drivers and updated DCS? Make sure you have Oculus set to run "untrusted apps" or something like that. Also, can you fire it up w/o VR? You can use SkateZilla's utility to quickly fire up DCS w/ and w/o VR.

 

Finally, do you have DCS installed on SSD?

 

See link below for SkateZilla's utility:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=160053

 

Thanks for the utility link.

 

I did run it for a week with framerates between 45-90 FPS (With Viggen & others in 1.5)

All settings at max almost.

 

Now a got some windows update / new Nvidea drivers and the high framerates are gone, both 1.5 & 2 stutter like hell and the game crashes into a black screen.

 

I noticed in DCS 2 that when the picture was only visable in the Oculus and not on the monitor my framerates went up again to 90 Fps.

Butt when I activated the screen with my mouse on the monitor I had stutters again.

 

Oculus set to run "untrusted apps" YES

M2 SSD YES

GTX G 1080

32 GB RAM

6700K at 4.2

 

Best regard Grippen7