Basher Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 I remember reading about this in the Late 80's. I think it would be a great equalizer for the Harrier vs Modern Fighters fight, at least close in.
Kayos Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 Looks good. We will have to give it a try in game :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Sweep Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 FYI, the bandit's gotta do horrible BFM to make this useful. BRB spiraling above your Harrier. I mean, at least the Cobra can be a last ditch in a bad rate fight...This is a good meme too, but far less useful. Lord of Salt
ViFF Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 Yes? IAF.ViFF http://www.preflight.us Israel's Combat Flight Sim Community Website
myHelljumper Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 Yes? :megalol: Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA
Quadg Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 the sea harriers of 801 had a lot of luck with this in mock NATO engagements before they deployed to the Falklands war. in engagements limited to sidewinders only. "sharky" ward (801 sq CO) describes it well in his book about the war. something like.. the f15's and F4 can always use afterburner to boom and zoom you and get on your rear. but if you use your manoeuvring to avoid the ir lock and then do this to them. they always panic and light their burners to try and get away and bam sidewinder up the butt.. the fighter jockeys are trying so hard to get ir lock they don't notice they are now in a slowing vertical turn fight and not a boom and zoom.. target fixation gets you killed :) the exercises ended with a harrier victory. by a large margin. didn't actually use it much in the Falklands because the Argentinians ran away (avoided engagement) so its good in training.. so will be great in air quake :) target fixation kills most people in dcs :) My Rig: AM5 7950X, 32GB DDR5 6000, M2 SSD, EVGA 1080 Superclocked, Warthog Throttle and Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Oculus Rift.
Basher Posted May 11, 2017 Author Posted May 11, 2017 Quadg, Would you recommend that book of "Sharky" Ward? If so, what is the title and any others?
Quadg Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/144216.Sea_Harrier_Over_The_Falklands it was a good read although I read it years ago. he is very opinionated.. but backs a lot of it up with results and hindsight.. the book by admiral "sandy" Woodward is a good one for a history of the conflict. he was task force commander http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/242359.One_Hundred_Days?from_search=true My Rig: AM5 7950X, 32GB DDR5 6000, M2 SSD, EVGA 1080 Superclocked, Warthog Throttle and Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Oculus Rift.
ESAc_matador Posted May 11, 2017 Posted May 11, 2017 http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/144216.Sea_Harrier_Over_The_Falklands it was a good read although I read it years ago. he is very opinionated.. but backs a lot of it up with results and hindsight.. the book by admiral "sandy" Woodward is a good one for a history of the conflict. he was task force commander http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/242359.One_Hundred_Days?from_search=true One of the best aviation books. Tells all the harrier story in falklands.... From the time they arrive to the navy, to the on the road practices going to falklands to the war itaelf. Read it twice.
cauldron Posted June 26, 2017 Posted June 26, 2017 the f15's and F4 can always use afterburner to boom and zoom you and get on your rear. but if you use your manoeuvring to avoid the ir lock and then do this to them. they always panic and light their burners to try and get away and bam sidewinder up the butt.. the fighter jockeys are trying so hard to get ir lock they don't notice they are now in a slowing vertical turn fight and not a boom and zoom.. target fixation gets you killed :) the exercises ended with a harrier victory. by a large margin. Basher...I think I read this book, by Bill Gunston right? Anyways, this assumes that DCS can model properly the ir signature of the harrier, otherwise they[the adversary] may not be have much of a need to maneuver to get a good ir lock. Btw... thanks for posting that passage, very appropriate to the Harrier.
probad Posted June 26, 2017 Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) it's just like the cobra, everyone's going to ride out once thinking they're going to viff it up and instead find themselves too busy defending against radar shots. then they go into the forums and make a thread about how frustrating it is and why they deserve to carry amraams. Edited June 26, 2017 by probad
cauldron Posted July 12, 2017 Posted July 12, 2017 it's just like the cobra, everyone's going to ride out once thinking they're going to viff it up and instead find themselves too busy defending against radar shots. then they go into the forums and make a thread about how frustrating it is and why they deserve to carry amraams. I guess Bill Gunston and sharky know nothing about ACM. A specific combat maneuver with designed purpose, and you trivialize it, place it out of context, then dismiss it with hyperbole about how hypothetically people ignorant of its utility & limitations will complain and annoy you on the forums.
mvsgas Posted July 12, 2017 Posted July 12, 2017 I guess Bill Gunston and sharky know nothing about ACM. A specific combat maneuver with designed purpose, and you trivialize it, place it out of context, then dismiss it with hyperbole about how hypothetically people ignorant of its utility & limitations will complain and annoy you on the forums. I have no idea how you get any of this out of what probad posted, oh well moving on. For me this won't be useful at all. I only have one throttle and I will probably assigned nozzle control to a button, so I do not expect to be able to make fast nozzle movement in DCS. To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
Norsegunar Posted July 12, 2017 Posted July 12, 2017 Going to be interesting when people start messing around with VIFFing in DCS. Specs: It's a computer...it runs DCS.... Audentes Fortuna Juvat [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Oesau Posted July 15, 2017 Posted July 15, 2017 Worthwhile reading this from IvanK: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2892255&postcount=166
archangel1973uk Posted August 29, 2017 Posted August 29, 2017 It was fine at the time as people didn't know about it - and it'll likely work within DCS world due to the inexperience, lack of formal training and lack of SA (due to virtual world) of the players... IRL most guys are prepared for it now cos it's the only trick they've got so doesn't really work so much against a skilled/trained bandit Remember... in a fight ... energy is king... do this and you've just killed your speed "energy bucket" (Leaving you with only power and altitude to trade and get that back - and you didn't even gain anything in the altitude bucket when you traded airspeed). But like any of these things (a la "Cobra", even terminal medical issues, hijacked aircraft etc) .. if you're gonna die imminently anyway; who cares, prob worth having a go - never know, maybe you'll get lucky!
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